Greenway - old ROW in Mt. Morris, NY

Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New York State.

Moderator: Otto Vondrak

Re: Greenway - old ROW in Mt. Morris, NY

Postby thebigham » Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:02 pm

^Thanks, Charles!

Any way you could share parts of your book with us?
thebigham
 
Posts: 3454
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 2:27 pm
Location: Arcade, NY

Re: Greenway - old ROW in Mt. Morris, NY

Postby RussNelson » Wed Aug 13, 2014 8:11 pm

I bicycled the GVG from north of Nunda (which is pronounced Nun-day, by the way) where there is a dead-end at a washout down to the far side of Cuba (and on to my hotel in Olean) ten days ago. Quoting from my trip report (http://blog.russnelson.com/bicycling/1406977893.html):

Nunda to Olean, NY, riding the Genesee Valley Greenway. Very long ride, very rural rail-trail. Probably less rural than the GVG north of Nunda. Apart from Mt. Morris, there are no on-line communities in that direction. In this direction you have Nunda, Portageville (there's a convenience store at the top of the hill), Fillmore has two taverns that serve food plus a convenience store, Houghton is a college town with a supermarket and a Subway, Belfast has at least one convenience store, and then Cuba.

And the southern section differs from the northern section in being split up. North of Mt. Morris the trail is contiguous (or was, the last time I rode it). South of it, the trail has multiple closures, some seemingly for legal reasons, others because of unrepaired washouts, and others because of missing bridges.

I started my ride by heading up to the north end of the nearby section of trail. It dead-ends at a washout caused by a creek. Riding south from there, there is a fenced-off section between Creek Road and Pentagass Road. Then it picks up and continues to the point where the canal (which has left us) rejoins. It goes into Letchworth Gorge State Park and becomes Letchworth Gorge Trail #7. It curves around, hugging the wall of the gorge until it gets to a portion that has been washed out. There, you have to walk on a hiking trail. It seems like a long distance, but is only half a kilometer.

We're then back on the the GVG, soon to pass underneath the Erie's Portageville Bridge. Then we get to a missing bridge, and exit the railbed for the highway. A couple of blocks through town and we're back on the trail again. This runs to Bailey Road, where they built a bridge with no accommodation for the trail. You can leave the trail to go underneath the bridge, then ride along River Road to the next trail access crossing.

Another 4km of trail and you've gotten to the biggest and baddest washout, where the Genesee River has totally destroyed the railbed by meandering through it. There's nothing until Cemetery Road on the south side of Fillmore. A bridge over a creek is missing, but south of Cemetery Road the trail picks up again for 2km.

You can stay on the rail-trail all the way through Houghton until a missing bridge after the south of town. Then when the trail crosses to the west side of NY-19, it's open again until Caneada where there's a bridge out. The trail picks up again on the east side of NY-19. It crosses NY-19 just after the trail goes over an old highway bridge. It's all trail from there through Oramel to Gleason Hill Road south of Belfast.

Unfortunately, the trail is washed out south of Belfast all the way to Baragon Hill Road in Belfast. There you can pick up the trail for 5km until the village of Black Creek, where you're off the trail on side streets to Cuba, where there is a 1.5 mile stretch recently opened.

The parts that are on trail are pretty and mostly shaded. Some of the off-trail portions are busy roads or hilly roads, alas. Still, I enjoyed riding the GVG. There is now no portion of it that can be ridden that I haven't ridden.
User avatar
RussNelson
 
Posts: 3790
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 1:20 am
Location: Potsdam, NY

Re: Greenway - old ROW in Mt. Morris, NY

Postby thebigham » Thu Aug 14, 2014 7:47 pm

Charles, can you tell me about the row here east of Black Creek?

http://tinyurl.com/mlsur82

Did the original canal/railroad weave back and forth here?

When the Erie Cutoff was built, they straightened out the PRR?
thebigham
 
Posts: 3454
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 2:27 pm
Location: Arcade, NY

Re: Greenway - old ROW in Mt. Morris, NY

Postby RussNelson » Thu Aug 14, 2014 11:01 pm

There's a bunch of places where the railroad and the canal diverged. Sometimes just by a few dozen feet, sometimes by a quarter mile. Keep looking west from that location and you'll see a substantial divergance.
User avatar
RussNelson
 
Posts: 3790
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 1:20 am
Location: Potsdam, NY

Re: Greenway - old ROW in Mt. Morris, NY

Postby nydepot » Fri Aug 15, 2014 5:15 am

Yes to both. When the railroad was built it followed the towpath. In some cases, later on as cars/engines/trains became larger, they straightened out the tracks. You can see this in several places when you look at the satellite images.

In Black Creek, the Erie paid for that to build the River Line and straightened the PRR line out.

Charles

thebigham wrote:Charles, can you tell me about the row here east of Black Creek?

http://tinyurl.com/mlsur82

Did the original canal/railroad weave back and forth here?

When the Erie Cutoff was built, they straightened out the PRR?
nydepot
 
Posts: 1908
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 7:50 am

Re: Greenway - old ROW in Mt. Morris, NY

Postby thebigham » Fri Aug 15, 2014 9:17 am

^That's what I thought. Thanks!

Wadsworth Jct. was the interchange with the Genesee & Wyoming, correct?

I just went to a party in Piffard. A local guy told me he still thinks most of the rail is still in place from Retsof to Piffard where the G&W interchanged with the PRR.

I know it's still not in at the River Road crossing.
Last edited by thebigham on Fri Aug 15, 2014 2:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
thebigham
 
Posts: 3454
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 2:27 pm
Location: Arcade, NY

Re: Greenway - old ROW in Mt. Morris, NY

Postby dj_paige » Fri Aug 15, 2014 9:30 am

Wadsworth Junction is where the Lehigh Valley crossed (and interchanged) with the PRR

PRR intechanged with G&W near Retsof, I don't know if technically you could call that Wadsworth

Wadsworth is where the DL&W interchanged with G&W
Paige
"If you get the chance to sit it out or dance, I hope you dance" -- LeAnn Rimes
My Flickr Photos
User avatar
dj_paige
 
Posts: 432
Joined: Sat May 01, 2004 10:10 am
Location: Rochester, NY

Re: Greenway - old ROW in Mt. Morris, NY

Postby thebigham » Fri Aug 15, 2014 10:04 am

^Ok. Thanks!

I though the G&W interchange was a little too far south for the tracks to still be in after 1963,
thebigham
 
Posts: 3454
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 2:27 pm
Location: Arcade, NY

Re: Greenway - old ROW in Mt. Morris, NY

Postby Scott K » Fri Aug 15, 2014 10:19 am

thebigham wrote:^Ok. Thanks!

I though the G&W interchange was a little too far south for the tracks to still be in after 1963,

Could your local be talking about the spur to the monastery? That's what's left of the G&W/PRR interchange.

Scott K.
Scott K
 
Posts: 203
Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2007 10:14 pm
Location: Parma Center, NY

Re: Greenway - old ROW in Mt. Morris, NY

Postby thebigham » Fri Aug 15, 2014 11:25 am

^Yes, the spur. Not the PRR main... I'll have to look this fall.
thebigham
 
Posts: 3454
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 2:27 pm
Location: Arcade, NY

Re: Greenway - old ROW in Mt. Morris, NY

Postby nydepot » Fri Aug 15, 2014 11:32 am

PRR/G&W interchange was Piffard. That's over the hill from Retsof and that line goes by the monastery (which was switched by the G&W).

After 1963, the G&W/PRR interchange was P&L Jct. on the LV which was expanded to compensate for the increased traffic.

Charles
nydepot
 
Posts: 1908
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 7:50 am

Re: Greenway - old ROW in Mt. Morris, NY

Postby thebigham » Sun Aug 17, 2014 8:58 pm

I drove to Olean tonight for a family picnic and I noticed a sign for "Canal Road" just before the Rt. 16 bridge over the WNY&P tracks:

http://tinyurl.com/mbkrcex

This was part of the canal south of Hinsdale that the PRR did not build the railroad on.
thebigham
 
Posts: 3454
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 2:27 pm
Location: Arcade, NY

Re: Greenway - old ROW in Mt. Morris, NY

Postby BR&P » Mon Aug 18, 2014 7:25 am

dj_paige wrote:Wadsworth Junction is where the Lehigh Valley crossed (and interchanged) with the PRR

PRR intechanged with G&W near Retsof, I don't know if technically you could call that Wadsworth

[b]Wadsworth is where the DL&W interchanged with G&W[/b]


I thought that was Griegsville
BR&P
 
Posts: 3526
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 7:58 pm

Re: Greenway - old ROW in Mt. Morris, NY

Postby FarmallBob » Mon Aug 18, 2014 8:48 am

BR&P wrote:
dj_paige wrote:Wadsworth Junction is where the Lehigh Valley crossed (and interchanged) with the PRR

PRR intechanged with G&W near Retsof, I don't know if technically you could call that Wadsworth

[b]Wadsworth is where the DL&W interchanged with G&W[/b]


I thought that was Griegsville


"Wadsworth" in local railroading a bit confusing.

The hamlet of Wadsworth is where the G&W/DL&W interchange track crossed NY 36. It's about 1/2 mile south of Griegsville.

Meanwhile Lehigh Valley's Wadsworth Jct (i/c track the PRR and a couple short sidings) was located in the NE corner of the town of Caledonia.

Incidentally the PRR/G&W i/c track ran from the PRR about 1/2 mile north of Piffard to the G&W in "downtown" Retsof. The track ran more or less parallel to NY 63.

...FB
User avatar
FarmallBob
 
Posts: 650
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 9:30 pm
Location: Chili, NY

Re: Greenway - old ROW in Mt. Morris, NY

Postby BR&P » Mon Aug 18, 2014 9:34 am

Now wait a minute, guys. We're getting confused, and throwing some wrong or potentially wrong information around.

It is important to specify whether we are talking about municipalities, or railroad locations. In many cases you can have a location which is in the Town Of A, but to the railroad it is known as B.

For instance, Charles states the PRR/G&W interchange was Piffard. That may be true if you have a township property map. But in railroad terms, it was known as Retsof Jct (Station # 55 on the G&W, station # 6256 on the PRR). Likewise FarmallBob may be correct if the G&W crossing at Rt 36 is in the municipal entity of Wadsworth. But to the railroad, the DL&W / G&W interchange was Griegsville (station #35 on the G&W, station # 681 on the DL&W)

There was a Wadsworth NY on the LV (station # 450) and there was Wadsworth Jct on the PRR (Station 6274). (obviously the PRR/LV interchange we're discussing) There was no Wadsworth on the G&W.

This info is from a 1955 OPSL and a 1966 ORG. It's possible names were different in years before or later.
BR&P
 
Posts: 3526
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 7:58 pm

PreviousNext

Return to New York State Railfan

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests