Portageville Bridge Replacement, Future Tier Traffic

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Re: Portageville Bridge Replacement, Future Tier Traffic

Postby MACTRAXX » Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:12 am

Everyone: Good to know about the fully completed status of the Genesee Arch Bridge.
The picture by John Kucko of the NS Office Car train on the bridge shows off the structure well...

Has there been any trespasser problems concerning the GAB this year now that we are more than
half way through Summer 2018? Is the bridge being watched by NYS State Park and/or NS Police?

If there are any special NO TRESPASSING signs in evidence around the vicinity of the bridge can
someone post a picture of one? Back when the GAB was being designed and built was there any
consideration about adding a secured walkway on one side alongside the track or was even that
deemed to be too much of a danger risk? MACTRAXX
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Re: Portageville Bridge Replacement, Future Tier Traffic

Postby Matt Langworthy » Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:35 pm

As I recall, NS stated there would be no pedestrian walkway on the bridge when they announced plans for construction. It makes sense IMO because of the liability issues associated with a walkway. I am not sure what NS and the park are doing to discourage trespassers on the bridge. It would be safe to assume both parties have plans in place to deal with the issue. There had been brief discussion of an automated gate at each end of the bridge early on, but the idea was dropped because potential issues associated with winter weather.
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Re: Portageville Bridge Replacement, Future Tier Traffic

Postby 452 Card » Sat Aug 18, 2018 3:55 pm

Getting back to the NS Presidential Train: I found a YOUTUBE video of it passing slowly by for the entire train, and it is quite a beautiful sight to see the glory of American passenger equipment looking as it did back in the day. I noticed that the A loco units have 4-wheel trucks, so they are not E-units. The point here is the stacks coming out of the b-ends on the roofs; are these equipped with HEP for the passenger consist? Both A units have the stacks with mufflers. The B units do not have the stacks, as far as I can tell. If there is an HEP unit in the rear, how the heck did they get it in there?
The MNCRR FL-9s that I am familiar with already had an extended wheelbase to accept an HEP unit in the rear of the loco replacing the steam generator. BUT!: I remember MNCRR having some F-10s, which also were longer. Are these NS engines F-10s?
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Re: Portageville Bridge Replacement, Future Tier Traffic

Postby CPSmith » Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:27 pm

Although it's a tight fit, EMD straight F units (not FPs) could be (and were) ordered with Vapor steam generators. Most were mounted at the rear on the fireman's side. You don't see those any more except in museums. However, when removed, that's plenty of room for today's modern stand-alone generators, most of which aren't much bigger than a doghouse. I think the muffler on top is a give-away. Having said that, yes, they could be used for HEP, but also for battery charging, hot stand-by, or any number of functions when the prime mover is shut down. My guess is the HEP for the train is in the first car behind the locos and the smaller ones in the Fs serve some other purpose.
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Re: Portageville Bridge Replacement, Future Tier Traffic

Postby TrainDetainer » Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:30 pm

Instead of speculating like foamers, why don't you look it up? Google can be your friend - took me all of 4 seconds to find this - http://www.altoonaworks.info/rebuilds/ns_funits.html.

And yes, their OCS does make quite a sight on the new bridge.
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Re: Portageville Bridge Replacement, Future Tier Traffic

Postby CPSmith » Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:48 pm

At last, someone with all the answers.

From your link: "Previous HEP generators replaced with smaller units and rooftop piping was modified"

So, as I suspect, they are used for some function other than keeping tootsies cool back in the train.

The first car after the consist is a HEP car. Why don't you take 4 seconds and research it for us?
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Re: Portageville Bridge Replacement, Future Tier Traffic

Postby Leo_Ames » Sun Aug 19, 2018 4:31 am

CPSmith wrote:At last, someone with all the answers.

From your link: "Previous HEP generators replaced with smaller units and rooftop piping was modified"

So, as I suspect, they are used for some function other than keeping tootsies cool back in the train.

The first car after the consist is a HEP car. Why don't you take 4 seconds and research it for us?


No, as that link clearly says, both the #4270 and the #4271 are equipped with HEP generators. They output 250KW, 480 Volts, 3-Phase AC.

I don't entirely know the reason for the standalone HEP cars that often accompany NS passenger specials, but suspect a major reason is so that the lights and heat/AC can stay on when the cars are parked by themselves while the power is away being serviced.

I might ask Altoonaworks on Facebook later about this. I bet he'd know why NS has HEP equipped A units yet still often takes along a HEP generator car with them.
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Re: Portageville Bridge Replacement, Future Tier Traffic

Postby thebigham » Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:55 am

MACTRAXX wrote:Everyone: Good to know about the fully completed status of the Genesee Arch Bridge.
The picture by John Kucko of the NS Office Car train on the bridge shows off the structure well...

Has there been any trespasser problems concerning the GAB this year now that we are more than
half way through Summer 2018? Is the bridge being watched by NYS State Park and/or NS Police?

If there are any special NO TRESPASSING signs in evidence around the vicinity of the bridge can
someone post a picture of one? Back when the GAB was being designed and built was there any
consideration about adding a secured walkway on one side alongside the track or was even that
deemed to be too much of a danger risk? MACTRAXX


The road under the new bridge has not re-opened so the public has not been near the new bridge.

It should re-open this week or next.
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Re: Portageville Bridge Replacement, Future Tier Traffic

Postby D Alex » Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:08 pm

OK, my interest is piqued; why would you need 480v, 3 phase generation for a passenger car?
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Re: Portageville Bridge Replacement, Future Tier Traffic

Postby erie2937 » Sun Aug 19, 2018 5:07 pm

Amtrak uses 480v. That is why all Class1 office cars also use 480v.
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Re: Portageville Bridge Replacement, Future Tier Traffic

Postby Leo_Ames » Sun Aug 19, 2018 5:15 pm

Altoonaworks says that powering the train when disconnected from the F units is part of the reason why they lug around the standalone HEP car, but also that the "F units HEP has caused trouble in the past".
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Re: Portageville Bridge Replacement, Future Tier Traffic

Postby CPSmith » Sun Aug 19, 2018 7:38 pm

"No, as that link clearly says, both the #4270 and the #4271 are equipped with HEP generators. They output 250KW, 480 Volts, 3-Phase AC."

Sorry, but I can't find any reference in the link to a 250kW generator. Do you have any idea how monstrous a 250kW unit is? The one in the photo is 10 ft. long, has a 6 cylinder diesel engine and weighs 3 tons.

I wouldn't be surprised to find one (or two) in NS 39 (HEP car), but you're not fitting that in the back of an F unit.
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Re: Portageville Bridge Replacement, Future Tier Traffic

Postby nydepot » Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:36 pm

Here:

http://www.blet375.com/NS/F9-Brochure.pdf

Search on 250


CPSmith wrote:"No, as that link clearly says, both the #4270 and the #4271 are equipped with HEP generators. They output 250KW, 480 Volts, 3-Phase AC."

Sorry, but I can't find any reference in the link to a 250kW generator. Do you have any idea how monstrous a 250kW unit is? The one in the photo is 10 ft. long, has a 6 cylinder diesel engine and weighs 3 tons.

I wouldn't be surprised to find one (or two) in NS 39 (HEP car), but you're not fitting that in the back of an F unit.
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Re: Portageville Bridge Replacement, Future Tier Traffic

Postby CPSmith » Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:48 pm

Thanks for the link, but I question even that info. It's just too much power out of not enough room. At this point, I'd have to look at one to be convinced, and that's not happening anytime soon.
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Re: Portageville Bridge Replacement, Future Tier Traffic

Postby ctclark1 » Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:30 am

A quote from the publication:
The HEP generators were replaced with more compact units, and the rooftop piping was relocated.


So all 250kw generators have to look exactly the same as the one you pictured? Also what's to say that the generator isn't mounted transverse... F9's are listed at 10'8" wide... Even accounting for smaller inside width it isn't a stretch to consider that the radiator and fan are routed to the roof.... all making "10 foot long" actually "8 feet wide" and "4 or 5 feet long" compared to the rest of the locomotive.
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