Trains on CSX St. Lawrence Sub (CR's Montreal Secondary)

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Re: Trains on CSX St. Lawrence Sub (CR's Montreal Secondary)

Postby tree68 » Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:32 pm

There was recently a "Looking Back" item in the WDT that mentioned something like 40,000 cars being handled on the St Lawrence Division, probably ca 1942. I didn't keep that paper. I presume that means cars handled as either origin or destination.
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Re: Trains on CSX St. Lawrence Sub (CR's Montreal Secondary)

Postby ccutler » Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:11 pm

I think a deal WOULD increase EHH's margins. The line probably has a high operating ratio [OR] because it is a relatively low density line. EHH can get cash upfront for the value of the line and then lower CSX's overall OR but jettisoning lines like the Montreal line. It sounds dumb to folks like us who know better, but unfortunately many institutional investors just don't get it, just EHH is now Chair of CSX.
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Re: Trains on CSX St. Lawrence Sub (CR's Montreal Secondary)

Postby lvrr325 » Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:34 pm

That old NYS&W deal was hinged on CN wanting to be able to add the NYC market to their system; it was thought that trains could come south to Syracuse, then use the NYS&W to Binghamton and then Little Ferry. For that to happen now, though, CN would probably also have to buy out CSX's share of the NYS&W. On the other hand, with CP out of Binghamton there's no one to object there, unless it were to cut into any existing NS traffic. Plus with NS control, there is a way for trains to go east without the runaround move needed in the past.

It's probably a good option for this piece of railroad if CSX is going to let that clown ruin the place. But would CSX allow it? They could spin it off from Woodard north and by continuing to control the lower end prevent that, or at least without them getting a piece of it. That would let them keep the Fulton Sub, too.

I know that the last time the rumor mill had it being spun off, the folks behind the Lehigh Railway were rumored to be looking at it. So there's other potential players out there.

But I agree, it's not going to be very busy without some bridge traffic - although with all the work that's been put into it, a shortline could defer maintenance for a long time before it became an issue.
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Re: Trains on CSX St. Lawrence Sub (CR's Montreal Secondary)

Postby SecaucusJunction » Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:59 pm

The NYSW is not allowed to haul bridge traffic for any other railroad, per their lease of the Tier rules. Their existing/old CSX haulage traffic was grandfathered in. Anything hauled would only be NYSW traffic
I think it may be possible that NJ Transit might not be the perfect, infallible organization that most people assume it is.
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Re: Trains on CSX St. Lawrence Sub (CR's Montreal Secondary)

Postby Matt Langworthy » Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:33 am

NYSW does haul traffic for FGLK to NJ. Is that considered bridge traffic?
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Re: Trains on CSX St. Lawrence Sub (CR's Montreal Secondary)

Postby lvrr325 » Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:20 pm

No.
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Re: Trains on CSX St. Lawrence Sub (CR's Montreal Secondary)

Postby johnpbarlow » Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:10 am

Trains Magazine on-line has an interesting article/interview with EHH yesterday with a couple of nuggets about possible disposition of the Montreal Secondary:

"...CSX is planning to sell or spin off underutilized routes, including all of its trackage in Canada and related lines in the U.S. The railroad is not committed to any underutilized route, Harrison says..."

“...We’re not going to keep railroads for defensive purposes. I don’t believe in that,” Harrison says. “You’ve got a real weakness if you do that.”..."

"...CSX will pull out of Canada because its business north of the border is not successful, Harrison says. He singled out the intermodal terminal in Valleyfield, Quebec, outside Montreal, which has not lived up to expectations. The $100-million terminal opened in December 2014 but now handles just a dozen containers per day, Harrison says..."

http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/20 ... csx-update
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Re: Trains on CSX St. Lawrence Sub (CR's Montreal Secondary)

Postby ccutler » Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:08 pm

Sounds like some great opportunities for Genesee and Wyoming are emerging!
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Re: Trains on CSX St. Lawrence Sub (CR's Montreal Secondary)

Postby Ironhorse27 » Sat Jan 27, 2018 7:32 pm

Anyone have any idea as to who the players might be to buy this line?
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Re: Trains on CSX St. Lawrence Sub (CR's Montreal Secondary)

Postby lvrr325 » Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:07 pm

I would presume G&W, CN, Watco, and possibly some other interests.

As I said in the other thread, If you could tie this together with the Susquehanna you'd have a one-carrier NY-Montreal route, I don't think you'd set the world on fire with it but there's likely money to be made from the business CSX is throwing away and the NYS&W certainly has the capacity for a few more trains. Unlike in the past when CSX might have objected to such a thing, I don't think they care now, although the NS portion of NYS&W ownership could be an issue since it might hurt traffic to and from CP on their former D&H lines.
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Re: Trains on CSX St. Lawrence Sub (CR's Montreal Secondary)

Postby Leo_Ames » Sun Jan 28, 2018 4:19 am

Canadian National seems like they'd be a natural, if the price is right.

It's mostly their traffic being channeled down the line, the route is in good shape, there's potential value there with intermodal if it's handled correctly with the understanding that it's not going to happen overnight, and Canadian National is busying themselves with rebuilding and again growing in the wake of Hurricane Harrison.

Meanwhile, CSX is retracting and acting more like a company that is preparing to exit the business via selling it off piece by piece with the goal being to inflate the stock price so that the investors behind this regime can sell high, and then spin off what's left afterwards.

Anyone else and I'd be concerned about the long-term viability here. Could easily see CSX reactivate their trackage rights agreement with D&H and shift this interchange traffic over if neither them or CN has a vested interest in this line, and then that's basically it. Local traffic isn't strong and the temptation to cut maintenance will see the slow orders proliferate in a few short years.

If someone like the Susquehanna gets it, I'd fear that it's the beginning of the end.
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Re: Trains on CSX St. Lawrence Sub (CR's Montreal Secondary)

Postby lvrr325 » Sun Jan 28, 2018 12:15 pm

I don't see the NYS&W expanding.
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Re: Trains on CSX St. Lawrence Sub (CR's Montreal Secondary)

Postby joha107 » Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:38 am

G&W is probably the top contender for any route that goes up for bid, but at least in terms of the St. Lawrence and Montreal Subs, you can probably figure, NYSW, VTR, GVT and Finger Lakes are going to be paying attention as they connect or come very close to connecting. G&W probably has the most purchasing power, but with so many other lines coming available, who knows what their focus might be. It's really going to depend on what happens to the CN traffic, other than the Beauharnois traffic, online business is very sparse and very scattered.
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Re: Trains on CSX St. Lawrence Sub (CR's Montreal Secondary)

Postby lvrr325 » Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:16 pm

The NYS&W is basically controlled by NS and CSX, again, it's highly unlikely they would make a play to expand. This is not the NYS&W of Walter Rich. The former Erie made sense since it connects both divisions.
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Re: Trains on CSX St. Lawrence Sub (CR's Montreal Secondary)

Postby tree68 » Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:42 pm

The line was for sale a few years ago, and they were either asking too much, or got no bites...
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