Batavia map (and new map webpage)

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Batavia map (and new map webpage)

Postby scottychaos » Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:14 am

Batavia has always confused me greatly..
I have driven around it several times, and I found the "old" DLWR "enginehouse" inside the large warehouse, but I could never figure out what all those random DLWR tracks snaking through Batavia were originally..and I know a bit of LV mainline is still in use..but where exactly?

And which current trackage was originally NYC, Erie or LV?
I had no idea! :P
(it turns out no original Erie trackage is use today..only NYC and LV)

and it doesnt help that the NYC completly moved and re-routed its mainline at some point! confusing things all the more..
(anyone know when they moved the mainline?)

so I made a map! (two actually)..
now I understand it all! :P

Im going to print these out and take them with me next time I head out Batavia-way..

I have included the Batavia map in a new webpage im working on:

http://gold.mylargescale.com/Scottychao ... index.html

thanks,
Scot
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EL/NYC Diamond

Postby nydepot » Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:54 am

Just after the Erie and NYC head south from their East-West heading, it appears they diamond (near Law St). Both tracks are heading to Attica. Which RR operated the diamond or was it unmanned?

Charles
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Postby alsorailfan » Wed Jan 16, 2008 11:15 am

Scot,
Thanks for all the work you've been doing such as this, your homepage, Alco roosters, etc. (and how to find the access to Genesee Junction and the turntable pit which BTW needs to be revised...another story).
I have the Mapworks-1st edition Finger Lakes and Western NY Atlas. (2006)
Was DLWR (which by the way confused me at first thinking Delaware, Lackawanna and Western?? until i read the caption) formerly Genesee and Mohawk Valley as indicated on the Atlas? It only shows DLWR from the interchange well west of 98 ending at the cemetery. Doesn't show the spur to the northeast. Nor from the interchange east crossing CSXT between the ponds at DeWitt Recreation Area, was this added in the past couple of years?
Thanks for allowing me to confuse you more! =-)
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Postby ricebrianrice » Wed Jan 16, 2008 1:18 pm

That is going to be a great page when you get all the maps on there. I can't wait :-D

BTW, Don't worry about the wide screens, I would rather see a good quality map and have to scroll.

I really like big the LV Map also.

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Postby bwparker1 » Wed Jan 16, 2008 1:32 pm

alsorailfan wrote:Scot,
Thanks for all the work you've been doing such as this, your homepage, Alco roosters, etc. (and how to find the access to Genesee Junction and the turntable pit which BTW needs to be revised...another story).
I have the Mapworks-1st edition Finger Lakes and Western NY Atlas. (2006)
Was DLWR (which by the way confused me at first thinking Delaware, Lackawanna and Western?? until i read the caption) formerly Genesee and Mohawk Valley as indicated on the Atlas? It only shows DLWR from the interchange well west of 98 ending at the cemetery. Doesn't show the spur to the northeast. Nor from the interchange east crossing CSXT between the ponds at DeWitt Recreation Area, was this added in the past couple of years?
Thanks for allowing me to confuse you more! =-)
Chris


Ditto! Scot, you make great maps, keep up the good work!

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Postby Dieter » Wed Jan 16, 2008 2:06 pm

If they moved the Central main, what is the location of where #999 made the speed record? Still tracks, a cornfield or a subdivision?

D/
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Postby RussNelson » Wed Jan 16, 2008 3:11 pm

I wonder if you should include the Buffalo, Corning and New York railroad. Was finished between Corning and Batavia, and graded westward of Batavia but it never saw rails. The grade is quite obvious:
http://rutlandtrail.org/gmap.cgi?BCnNY.ny.track
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Postby scottychaos » Wed Jan 16, 2008 4:35 pm

Thanks guys!
glad you like it..

most of the 2008 trackage I worked out by going to:

http://maps.live.com/

and using the "birds eye view" to actually follow the trackage along the ground..the resolution is good enough that you can actually see where rails are in place and where they are not!
I used that to determine (over on the east side) that the LV crossed over the Erie..the LV raised embankment and bits of concrete bridge supports are still very evident at the crossing..then the Erie crossed over the NYC main..the bridge is still in place!

One thing I cant tell however is how the LV and NYC peanut met..
I cant tell if one crossed over the other, or if they crossed with diamonds at grade..I plan to visit the site, that should give a clearer picture..

nydepot wrote:Just after the Erie and NYC head south from their East-West heading, it appears they diamond (near Law St). Both tracks are heading to Attica. Which RR operated the diamond or was it unmanned?

Charles


I dont know who controlled the diamond, but the NYC wasnt happy about the Erie trying to cross their mainline..I found this story while googling for the Erie and NYC branch line names for those two routes:

http://tinyurl.com/26kcoj

Dieter wrote:If they moved the Central main, what is the location of where #999 made the speed record? Still tracks, a cornfield or a subdivision?

D/


It looks like the NYC main was only rerouted south of batavia proper..
you can see to the east and west of Batavia on the maps the current route is the same as the original route.

999 didnt reach its top speed at Batavia proper..but nearby on a long straight tangent..I believe it was west of Batavia..
so its likely the historic section of track still exists today..
im not sure exactly where that was..there is a chapter on 999 in one of the stauffer books..I dont have the book, but im sure the exact location is still known. someone will probably chime in with it! :P

thanks,
Scot
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Postby med-train » Wed Jan 16, 2008 4:40 pm

Dieter wrote:If they moved the Central main, what is the location of where #999 made the speed record? Still tracks, a cornfield or a subdivision?

D/


The 999 speed run was done on the NYC mainline west of Batavia in the vicinity of Corfu. Just a little south of the junction of NY 33 and NY 77. Somewhere out in that area. It would be classified as cornfield territory.

The move mentioned earlier here is just enough to skirt around the City of Batavia. The main line out near Corfu was not moved. I think the move was done long after the speed run. In fact wasn't the move done in what we would call recent times?
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Postby scottychaos » Wed Jan 16, 2008 4:56 pm

Ah, here is a story about 999:

http://www.co.genesee.ny.us/dpt/historian/ese999.html

looks like the top speed was recorded just before Crittenden,
traveling west between Batavia and Buffalo.

taking a quick look at maps, it looks like the trackage is still all in its original location through there.

Its a long straight tangent between Batavia and Depew..thats where 999 set her record. all that trackage is still in its original location.

Scot
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Postby scottychaos » Wed Jan 16, 2008 4:59 pm

Anyone know what those giant artificial ponds are for?
over on the west side near the yard.

Scot
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Postby scottychaos » Wed Jan 16, 2008 5:48 pm

alsorailfan wrote:Scot,

Was DLWR (which by the way confused me at first thinking Delaware, Lackawanna and Western?? until i read the caption) formerly Genesee and Mohawk Valley as indicated on the Atlas?


Chris,
Im not sure about the Genesee and Mohawk Valley..could be an old 19th century railroad name..the mighty New York Central was created by absorbing hundreds of smaller lines..

as for DLWR, yes, it can be a bit confusing! :P
here is the story..

First, there was the Delaware, Lackawanna & Western..the original DL&W.
the famous "Route of the Phoebe Snow" that operated between New York City and Buffalo, and ceased to exist in 1960 when it merged with the Erie to form the Erie Lackawanna..which in turn went into Conrail in 1976.

Very little exists of the DL&W across NY state today..(thats another "tour" im working on! ;)
That DL&W crossed to the south of Batavia, out of the range of my map.

The confusion comes about with a few the current GVT shortlines.
The Delaware Lackawanna in Scranton, PA, which sounds like DL&W except for the "Western"

And the Depew, Lancaster & Western, another GVT shortline, which has the initials DL&W, same as the original DL&W, and is in two separate divisions, one in Batavia and one in Lancaster.

The DL in Scranton runs on some original DL&W trackage, and both the old DL&W and the new DL are strongly associated with Scranton.

The current DLWR shortline also runs on some original DL&W track in the lancaster/depew area..also confusing.

So we have three different railroads, with names that sound very much alike! I have seen recently, on railfan photo sites, photos of the current DL in Scranton put in folders for the original DL&W, and vice-versa.
people confuse the two, or think they are the same..
they are totally unrelated, except by bits of shared trackage.

I try to never use the term "DL&W" when referring to the Depew, Lancaster & Western..for me, those initials are reserved for Phoebe's railroad only..instead I refer to it by its AAR reporting marks, DLWR.

AAR reporting marks:

Delaware, Lackawanna & Western - DLW
Depew, Lancaster & Western - DLWR
Delaware Lackawanna - DL

The original Lackawanna was refered to as:
"The DL&W"
"The Lackawanna"
"Route of the Phoebe Snow"
the full name "Delaware, Lackawanna & Western"
my Dad said it was even referred to as "The DL" back in the day.
which again clashes with the current "DL" in Scranton..

whenever you see "DL&W" that usually refers to the original Lackawanna.
or at least, IMO, it should! ;)

I think its cool that GVT has done so much to honor their DL&W heritage,
but sometimes I wish they had chosen some slightly more unique names for their railroads! ;)

hope that helps!

Scot
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Postby nydepot » Wed Jan 16, 2008 5:48 pm

Sewage treatment plant

scottychaos wrote:Anyone know what those giant artificial ponds are for?
over on the west side near the yard.

Scot
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Postby nydepot » Wed Jan 16, 2008 5:53 pm

The NYC Peanut and LV east of Batavia? LV over Peanut on bridge.

LV and NYC line to Attica south of Batavia? NYC under LV again. Both the Erie and NYC were under.

Charles

scottychaos wrote:One thing I cant tell however is how the LV and NYC peanut met..
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Postby Brad Smith » Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:12 pm

[quote="scottychaosThe original Lackawanna was refered to as:
"The DL&W"
"The Lackawanna"
"Route of the Phoebe Snow"
the full name "Delaware, Lackawanna & Western"
my Dad said it was even referred to as "The DL" back in the day.
which again clashes with the current "DL" in Scranton..
Scot[/quote]
And of course the derogatory "Delay, Linger & Wait" :-D
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