Old boxcars in Palmyra - getting cut up

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Old boxcars in Palmyra - getting cut up

Postby scottychaos » Tue Nov 13, 2007 3:24 pm

Last week I read in a thread here about some old boxcars sitting in Palmyra:

http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopi ... 5&start=15

Roadster mentioned that they are old Kodak boxcars, and they are being scrapped..

I work at Kodak, am interested in Kodak & Railroad history, so I drove out to take a look!

Yes, they are being scrapped. :(
there was a lone guy there slowly cutting them up while I was there. (I didnt talk to him, he was way down at the West end, I stayed at the East end under the bridge.)

All the cars are of the same design, double-doors, rounded roofs..
markings are all almost gone..nothing was clearly legible.
I found a few marking that look like they could be "EK"..
and some of the cars have a large round logo on the side, too faded to make out any actual words..

Anyone know the history of these cars?
Did they actually belong to Kodak?
If so, I imagine there were for paper loading of some sort?
How long have they been in Palmyra?

Thanks for the heads-up on these cars Roadster! :P
I had never even heard of them before.
(and it was nice to meet you in syracuse!)

Scot


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Postby nydepot » Tue Nov 13, 2007 3:29 pm

They have the DT&I logo on them.

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Postby Otto Vondrak » Tue Nov 13, 2007 3:45 pm

Those cars must have been taken out of interchange service a looooong time ago (before 1974?) because it appears they still have full ladders reaching to the roof.

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Postby scharnhorst » Tue Nov 13, 2007 4:16 pm

I rember seeing them cars there about 10 or 15 years ago sitting with a bunch of empty Conrail ballest hoppers that were marked bad order. They kind of look like they have DT&I logos on them.
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Postby Luther Brefo » Tue Nov 13, 2007 4:42 pm

Every time I have taken Amtrak between Rochester and New York City, I have seen these boxcars and wondered who, what, why, how and when? Thanks for the photos, Scot. Most of my photos were from Amtrak coaches zipping by at 60+ MPH....

I guess the other question is does any organization care enough or have the space to care enough about even one of these boxcars?
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Postby Sir Ray » Tue Nov 13, 2007 4:47 pm

Otto Vondrak wrote:Those cars must have been taken out of interchange service a looooong time ago (before 1974?) because it appears they still have full ladders reaching to the roof.-otto-

Not to mention those 'Journal (Friction) Bearing' trucks...
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Postby Otto Vondrak » Tue Nov 13, 2007 4:52 pm

I guess the other question is does any organization care enough or have the space to care enough about even one of these boxcars?


Do they care? Probably. Do they have the money to move them? Probably not. Money money money money. While they may be neat cars (I think they are), if they are ex-DT&I, not much use to a museum group around here.

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Postby Conrail4evr » Tue Nov 13, 2007 4:54 pm

Luther Brefo wrote:Every time I have taken Amtrak between Rochester and New York City, I have seen these boxcars and wondered who, what, why, how and when? Thanks for the photos, Scot. Most of my photos were from Amtrak coaches zipping by at 60+ MPH....

I guess the other question is does any organization care enough or have the space to care enough about even one of these boxcars?


From previous discussions, I've gathered that the owner has no interest in preserving them and is simply out to make a buck or two. That's capitalism for you!
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Postby Luther Brefo » Tue Nov 13, 2007 4:59 pm

Otto Vondrak wrote:
I guess the other question is does any organization care enough or have the space to care enough about even one of these boxcars?


Do they care? Probably. Do they have the money to move them? Probably not. Money money money money. While they may be neat cars (I think they are), if they are ex-DT&I, not much use to a museum group around here.

-otto-


I was thinking more for storage such that other more historic cars could be freed up for displays...say a specific Erie Milk Car that I find to be awesome! Someday...

I can dream can't I? :)

Conrail4evr wrote:From previous discussions, I've gathered that the owner has no interest in preserving them and is simply out to make a buck or two. That's capitalism for you!


Part of life...I can live with that.
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Postby Alcoman » Tue Nov 13, 2007 5:06 pm

I wonder if those were former automobile parts cars ? They have large double doors and high roofs (good for fork lift trucks), plus being from the DT&I which covers alot of auto manufacturing plants in the Detroit area. :-)
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Postby joshuahouse » Tue Nov 13, 2007 5:19 pm

I was having the same thoughts even before I saw the DTI mentions.
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Postby sd80mac » Tue Nov 13, 2007 6:38 pm

I was told that they were either NYC or PC boxcars.

and these were being used as storage for a compnay which occupied a freight house (I think it was). That building was burned down sometime last 2 years. I was shocked to see no building.

So I guess the owner have no use of these boxcars since his business went up in flame...

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Postby CRHauf » Tue Nov 13, 2007 11:57 pm

Luther,

Over the many years, the Rochester & Genesee Valley Railroad Museum has inquired about the preservation of at least one of these cars that were used by Kodak for in-plant service for part of their life. Their owner was never willing to let one go via donation or even purchase. Other priorities have had them off of our radar screen for a little bit. Maybe it is time to take another look, however...

There is an additional catch. They are on disconnected track and journal bearing which probably means trucking or loading on flatcar if they could be loaded out of there at all. That equates to lots of dollars as Otto alludes to, and there just isn't as much support out there for preservation efforts as many of us hope for. For example, there are two threads on railroad.net on the R&GVRRM's fund raising efforts for new batteries for LV#211. One here and one in the Lehigh Valley forum. Combined they total nearly 1000 views; arguably some of which are repeat visits. Even so, we have received only ONE donation out of all of those views. I say this not to try to guilt anyone into donating, but just to ground people in the challenges railroad preservation groups face when presented with preservation possibilities. Certainly we are all facing what seems to be a daily increase in the cost of living, and the holiday season is looming as well. With gas rapidly climbing over $3.00 a gallon, for example, I am sure funds that might have been available for donations are going into people's tanks.

And with all of that said, I welcome any additional ideas on how we might save one of these very neat cars with lots of local history if one could be made available to be saved.

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Postby lvrr325 » Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:01 am

I'm sure the CNY Chapter could use one. Trouble is you'd have to offer scrap price, unless you could convince the owner he needs a tax write-off. What's the light weight on a boxcar like this? Does it count as short iron at the scrapyard? I haven't priced it lately but scrap automobiles have been bringing in the $90-$150 a ton range all year, it just depends where you take it to and varies some from month to month.

Just for the hell of it I did the math using an Athearn Railbox that was handy, shows a LT WT on the data of 58,700 - a tad over 29 tons. That sound right? Seems like LT WT is what the car weighs empty. That means around $3000 would buy a boxcar if the scrap brings $100/ton. Probably best to get a quote for short steel and recalculate based on that.

I don't know what he's using to cut them up, torches I assume, but you can subtract from that the cost of probably a couple refills on the oyxgen and acetelyne tanks per car, plus unless he has a really big truck it probably takes 5 trips to the scrapper to haul one car away - a truck that big doesn't get that great of fuel milage. Knowing his expenses gives you some bargaining room when you make an offer to buy them.


So that leaves sorting out liability for storage pending moving them. Who owns the siding/land they're stored on? What's a group like Silk Road going to want to come in and haul them out?


I'll throw them around at some people I know and see what they have to say on it -
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Postby Otto Vondrak » Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:02 am

Bottom line, I'm sure we'd all like to save one, but none of the preservation organizations can currently fund such a move by themselves. The fact that these cars will have to be craned and flatbedded to their final destination is the barrier. It also sounds like the current owner is not interested either way. Too many barriers, in my opinion.

Chris, thanks for chiming in. I wish that preservation wasn't so expensive!!
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