CSX Charlotte Runner

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Re: CSX Charlotte Runner

Postby Matt Langworthy » Wed May 17, 2017 9:44 am

Apete2 wrote:All of these locations were accessed from the Turning Point trail, for the first one you can follow the trail from the turning point parking lot.

The people walking the track were not related to me, ,I would never take a client on tracks, even OOS. Tje scouting part was for the turning point path and vicinity.


Thank you for the clarification.
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Re: CSX Charlotte Runner

Postby ctclark1 » Wed May 17, 2017 7:21 pm

Apete2 wrote:Why would they fix it last year then abandons?


IIRC, the tl;dr of the previously mentioned thread is this - it is an intentional "woe is me" to the STB... "look how much this line, which provided such little income, cost us to upkeep. Please oh please let us abandon it"
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Re: CSX Charlotte Runner

Postby nessman » Wed May 17, 2017 9:11 pm

ctclark1 wrote:The derail had probably already been there (end of a yard, don't need runaway cars running back towards the city)

It's downhill from Kodak Park to Charlotte.
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Re: CSX Charlotte Runner

Postby BR&P » Wed May 17, 2017 9:18 pm

nessman wrote:It's downhill from Kodak Park to Charlotte.

Image That was proved quite graphically several years back! Image
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Re: CSX Charlotte Runner

Postby sd80mac » Thu May 18, 2017 7:51 am

nessman wrote:
ctclark1 wrote:The derail had probably already been there (end of a yard, don't need runaway cars running back towards the city)

It's downhill from Kodak Park to Charlotte.


And aren't yard usually be "bowl" too?? you can see slightly depressed track in middle of yard. and the curve of track toward to the yard is higher than yard.
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Re: CSX Charlotte Runner

Postby BR&P » Thu May 18, 2017 8:50 am

Ken, unless they are building a new yard where it is possible to use earthmovers etc to make what you want, yards are usually governed by the prevailing topography. While a bowl shape is ideal, I'd say more often than not a yard will "run" from one end to another, and in some fun cases the yard tracks are higher than the leads on BOTH ends, meaning while switching you always have to watch out for cars coming back at you if the hitch did not make.

If I recall, the river at Charlotte is the low point and both the West and East yards were downhill toward it. On at least one occasion vandals released brakes and cars from the East Yard wound up in the river, while I vaguely recall cars from the West Yard rolling around the wye and blocking River Street before they were shoved back to where they came from.
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Re: CSX Charlotte Runner

Postby ctclark1 » Thu May 18, 2017 7:37 pm

nessman wrote:
ctclark1 wrote:The derail had probably already been there (end of a yard, don't need runaway cars running back towards the city)

It's downhill from Kodak Park to Charlotte.

Alright, so not all the way back to Rochester, but my point remains, the derail was most likely there previous to the new red ties mentioned and doesn't really have anything to do with an OOS order that the blocked rail indicates.
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Re: CSX Charlotte Runner

Postby charlie6017 » Thu May 18, 2017 8:20 pm

ctclark1 wrote:
nessman wrote:
ctclark1 wrote:The derail had probably already been there (end of a yard, don't need runaway cars running back towards the city)

It's downhill from Kodak Park to Charlotte.

Alright, so not all the way back to Rochester, but my point remains, the derail was most likely there previous to the new red ties mentioned and doesn't really have anything to do with an OOS order that the blocked rail indicates.


I would say you're right, probably to keep any cars that were in the yard from reaching the River St. crossing.

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Re: CSX Charlotte Runner

Postby mike157 » Fri May 19, 2017 8:35 am

Living in the valley not far from Turning Point Park, we use Boxart Street a great deal and observe the RR track that goes under Lake Ave. I have not seen activity on the track in a long time. But - last week there was a very long string of CSX coal cars parked there.
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Re: CSX Charlotte Runner

Postby BR&P » Fri May 19, 2017 8:59 am

mike157 wrote:Living in the valley not far from Turning Point Park, we use Boxart Street a great deal and observe the RR track that goes under Lake Ave. I have not seen activity on the track in a long time. But - last week there was a very long string of CSX coal cars parked there.


Last string of stored cars leaving Charlotte before the track was taken O/S, possibly? Any other guesses?

(Headed for Yates Dock, maybe? Image)
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Re: CSX Charlotte Runner

Postby Matt Langworthy » Fri May 19, 2017 11:50 am

sd80mac wrote:
BR&P wrote:That was the tip-off right there. I might have even said that on a post here. When they upgrade and improve something, be sure you have your photos of it because it may not be around much longer.


Yeah, I didn't forget about your comment. Also, new paint on the wall = Bu-BYE! Wondering if they did paint the wall at that abandoned building about half mile east of Wayneport Rd and building at Chili JCT.. LOL...

When that coal-fired power plant is done, I know that Charlotte Runner will be thing of past shortly...


It would not surprise me if CSX abandons the section between Eastman Business Park (formerly Kodak Park) and the mainline, with the remaining stub from Eastman Business Park to Boxart Street being sold to the R&S.
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Re: CSX Charlotte Runner

Postby BR&P » Fri May 19, 2017 12:55 pm

Gotta wonder if R&S would even want it.
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Re: CSX Charlotte Runner

Postby RailKevin » Fri May 19, 2017 6:11 pm

Here's an opportunity for an enterprising person to start a new short line operation. You only need one locomotive. No runaround moves necessary to serve the box shop, either. Just pick up the occasional car or two near ridge road and bring them back when done. This turn key operation practically runs itself! :P
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Re: CSX Charlotte Runner

Postby BR&P » Fri May 19, 2017 7:35 pm

RailKevin wrote:Here's an opportunity for an enterprising person to start a new short line operation. You only need one locomotive. No runaround moves necessary to serve the box shop, either. Just pick up the occasional car or two near ridge road and bring them back when done. This turn key operation practically runs itself! :P


Sounds great, sign me up!

Let's see.....what do they get, maybe 2 cars a week? Let's call it 3. So ballpark 160 cars a year. No idea what CSX would allow for a switching charge but plug in $300 a car, and you're making $48,000 a year! Not too shabby.

Of course we'll need insurance. I'm a bit out of the loop on what things currently go for, but $8,000 would be a reasonable figure for openers. Now with locos going for pretty hefty prices, maybe we should rent instead of buying. Say we get a good deal, and they only charge per day of use instead of monthly. Two trips a week, say $125 a day, that's $13,000 a year. No sweat, we still have $27,000 to play with.

Those boxcars have a car hire fee. Sometimes the Class I will allow free time, sometimes not. Let's say Harrison has CSX pinching pennies and we have to pay. Car hire is all over the map but for budgeting say $1.00 an hour. If the cars stay on line 2 days that's $48, let's say $50 a car, or $8,000 a year. Hmmmm, that brings us down to $19,000.

Hey, just realized we have McCall Road and Dewey Ave with active crossing protection - gates and flashers. That means an RG&E power feed for each one. And it means the FRA requires monthly, quarterly, annual, and other inspections and tests. Probably will have to find a signal guy to moonlight - let's say $100 a crossing a month for him, plus the power, assorted stuff that needs replacement, and occasional damage by a vandal. $4,000 for signals a year is probably close enough at the moment. Well, $15,000 for a fun railroad isn't bad.

Loco fuel - really rough guess 1 gallon a mile, 4 mile round trip, 400 miles a year, $2.50 a gallon, there's a grand.

Man, I plumb forgot about track!!!! Feds say you have to inspect it once a week. The actual inspection you might be able to do by walking - IF you are a qualified track inspector under the regs - but you'll probably need a truck somehow for tools etc. Might even get by without a hirail but you still have to factor in gas, insurance, cost of the truck, cost of the tools, cost of any ties, bolts, etc. Or maybe pay a contractor to do it. Who wants to throw a number on that? Just for fun call it $5,000, and we're down to $9,000. This isn't going to be such a gravy train after all.

Of course the regs also require all sorts of training and certification for engineers, conductors, we'll need a drug and alcohol program on file, and most likely we'll have to be paying somebody to do all this. There's lots of assorted stuff I have not mentioned but if we say $5,000 for all the other stuff related to that, plus a little cushion for the unexpected, we should have $4,000 left to pay the train crew - say 100 trips a year, 2 men....that's $20 each to make the run. That's not much more than Burger King, but we can enjoy the fun of it and just barely break even. Assuming we can park the engine inside Folding Box. Oh wait, I forgot they only have one track and it's not inside!

What? I forgot WHAT? TAXES???? As in property taxes? You mean we gotta pay the .gov? Sheesh...and I bet we'll also need an accountant to prepare annual corporate income taxes too! Look at that - we have not even turned a wheel and we're losing money already! :P

(the above is an over-simplified glance at the headaches and heartaches involved. There are more items which I didn't bother to list. You can play around for yourself with more here, less there, but bottom line is it ain't gonna fly. But it's fun thinking about it!)
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Re: CSX Charlotte Runner

Postby Matt Langworthy » Mon May 22, 2017 6:39 am

BR&P wrote:Gotta wonder if R&S would even want it.


I had a discussion with a RR professional a few years ago regarding the ultimate fate of the Charlotte Runner, and he told me the R&S would probably buy that segment if they had the opportunity to do so. It would be an easy connection to their operation, and could even be handled by a switcher from the KPRR. I can't think of any other shortline operator wanting a segment with just one customer.
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