Unfinished Railroads of New York State

Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New York State.

Moderator: Otto Vondrak


Re: Unfinished Railroads of New York State

Postby Statkowski » Sat Oct 25, 2008 9:15 pm

Still on the NYW&B connection, they did propose a branch to Throgg's Neck in The Bronx. Saw a map of sorts on it once, sort of sidetracked through Soundview.
Ex-NYNH&H SS Opr
Statkowski
 
Posts: 492
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2004 7:44 am
Location: Cherry Tree, Pa.

Re: Unfinished Railroads of New York State

Postby RussNelson » Sun Oct 26, 2008 5:29 pm

Yeah, of proposals there is no end. I'm looking for routes that were built but never operated. For example, the Rochester & Eastern Rapid Railway laid tracks in Fairport but never connected it to the rest of their system and never operated it.
User avatar
RussNelson
 
Posts: 3786
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 1:20 am
Location: Potsdam, NY

Re: Unfinished Railroads of New York State

Postby salminkarkku » Sat Nov 01, 2008 8:30 am

"Buffalo, Thousand Islands & Portland"?

This one's profile on Google Web and Google Books has just improved. I put the following on the "Lehigh Valley" forum some time ago:

"As far as I can make out, the LV wanted to team up with the "Rome, Watertown & Ogdensburg" in about 1896 and build something called the "Buffalo, Thousand Islands & Portland" from Tonawanda Junction to Niagara Falls and Suspension Bridge. This would have given LV its own route to Canada, and the RWO its own route into Buffalo via the LV Tonawanda line. When the scheme busted, primarily because the RWO became part of the NYC, the chartered route of the BTIP was used by the "International Ry" for its fast interurban bypassing Tonawanda to just east of Niagara Falls."

The ICC listed it as operating 50 yards in 1908-9. From the various bits on Google Books, it seems it was acquring land up to 1911 when it gave up and sold its properties to the "International Ry". It seems to have started construction in order to get to the attention of the ICC, and it seems to have done this at the Suspension Bridge end. The route between Suspension Bridge and Niagara Falls was not used by the IR.
salminkarkku
 

Re: Unfinished Railroads of New York State

Postby salminkarkku » Sat Nov 01, 2008 10:24 am

"Greigsville & Pearl Creek"?

There was a thread on this board back in 2006 concluding that this was just a paper road. My contribution was:

"The ICC stats have the G&PC listed as a common carrier from 1898 to 1909, when it was "practically abandoned". It allegedly opened 3m of line in April 1898 with one loco, and "ceased operations" in June 1899. I did find a map somewhere that showed it running from a junction with the DLW north of Greigsville, west to a dead -end spot called "North Greigsville".

As I've found, the ICC did list several railroads where the actual level of public service must have been dubious at best -as I've remarked in another thread, amounting to some farmer's hog in a handcart. But this one seemed to have done something.

BTW, the Google references to "North Greigsville" are to an 1872 map of the area, and concern the place now known as Greigsville. So no help there."

If you look at Google Books, you will see that it is listed in a lot of contemporary official reports. I think it built something.
salminkarkku
 

Re: Unfinished Railroads of New York State

Postby RussNelson » Sat Nov 01, 2008 12:45 pm

salminkarkku wrote:"Greigsville & Pearl Creek"?


Everything I've got a reference for, I've put in the Wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greigsvill ... k_Railroad

It would be nice if somebody had a reference for industrial spur operations that load gons. Some damfool wikipedia editor thinks it's original research to say that an industrial "would have extended past the mine by at least the length of one train, in order to be able to load the entire train from one point.[original research?]" I think it's perfectly obvious, but they think it's some kind of secret that I was able to ferret out by doing original research.
User avatar
RussNelson
 
Posts: 3786
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 1:20 am
Location: Potsdam, NY

Re: Unfinished Railroads of New York State

Postby choess » Sun Nov 02, 2008 3:09 pm

Has anyone tried checking a Genesee & Wyoming history, or a Sanborn map of Retsof/Greigsville, if it exists? Either one might happen to cover the location of the Greigsville salt mine and the railroad.
choess
 
Posts: 169
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 8:36 pm

Re: Unfinished Railroads of New York State

Postby choess » Sun Nov 02, 2008 3:13 pm

In fact, I notice in the 1901 Poor's that the Genesee and Wyoming had an interlocking directorate with the Greigsville & Pearl Creek.
choess
 
Posts: 169
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 8:36 pm

Re: Unfinished Railroads of New York State

Postby neroden » Mon Nov 03, 2008 4:22 pm

Wikipedia editors seem to think that any sort of general knowledge of a subject constitutes "original research". If you wrote "2+2=4" they'd say [original research?].
neroden
 
Posts: 1175
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 12:37 am
Location: Ithaca, NY

Re: Unfinished Railroads of New York State

Postby salminkarkku » Sun Nov 16, 2008 3:07 pm

The "Schenectady & Margaretville" was a subsidiary of the "Delaware & Eastern", and the Wikipedia page for "Grand Gorge Station has this to say:

"Grand Gorge Station, MP 65.5 on the Ulster and Delaware Railroad (U&D), originally known as Moresville, is a train station that had more freight service than passenger service. Its main business was the freight coming from the local farms and dairy products from the Decker-Slawson Creamery, which later became the Sheffield Farms Creamery. It also served the nearby community of Prattsville.

For a time Grand Gorge was the site of great activity when the construction of the Schenectady and Margaretville Railroad was attempted. Special sidings were built for contractors and a large volume of equipment and supplies were delivered to commence construction. Hundreds of Italian laborers recruited from New York City were set to work grading the new line. Unfortunately, the money soon ran out, the workers were not paid and the whole project collapsed. Many of the laborers walked back to New York City following the tracks on which they had arrived. Evidence of the grading can still be seen today along the valley from Grand Gorge down to Prattsville."
salminkarkku
 

Re: Unfinished Railroads of New York State

Postby salminkarkku » Sun Nov 16, 2008 3:14 pm

Do you want to count any never-used bits of the NYC subway system?

The shell of the interchange station at South 4th St at Brooklyn, part of the extensive proposals of the IND "Second System, gets a mention here:

http://www.nycsubway.org/articles/indsecond.html
salminkarkku
 

Re: Unfinished Railroads of New York State

Postby salminkarkku » Sun Nov 16, 2008 3:20 pm

According to this

http://www.bygoneli.com/trans/brr.php

the "Boynton Bicycle" electric monorail started construction of a line between Patchogue and Bellport, and evidence of it survives.
salminkarkku
 

Re: Unfinished Railroads of New York State

Postby salminkarkku » Sun Nov 16, 2008 3:27 pm

Before I forget to mention it -I read somewhere that the B&O did prelim work on its proposed tunnel from Staten Island to Brooklyn but can't now find my source.
salminkarkku
 

Re: Unfinished Railroads of New York State

Postby RussNelson » Mon Nov 17, 2008 11:45 am

salminkarkku wrote:According to this

http://www.bygoneli.com/trans/brr.php

the "Boynton Bicycle" electric monorail started construction of a line between Patchogue and Bellport, and evidence of it survives.

Indeed! Anybody have any idea of the route? Or where the photo of the "hump" on the referenced web page was taken?
User avatar
RussNelson
 
Posts: 3786
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 1:20 am
Location: Potsdam, NY

Re: Unfinished Railroads of New York State

Postby salminkarkku » Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:56 pm

I've just noticed that the "Schenectady & Margaretville" described duplicates your "Delaware & Eastern" entry, which makes sense since the former was a sub of the latter.

Two electric railways which I think may qualify, but which need more research, are:

BUFFALO, BATAVIA & ROCHESTER ELECTRIC.
This was incorporated in 1904 to build a heavy-rail fast interurban between these three places, with third-rail power. Actually it would have started at Williamsville, where it owned a little trolley line connecting to the Buffalo city streetcar system and at which passengers would have had to change.
What it managed was to build a small streetcar system at Batavia. However, it seems to have done a lot of preparation in the way of buying land and raising funds, and I suspect it did some ground-work as well. Although I haven't seen any evidence, if you look at the map you will see it was almost certain it would have wanted to use the abandoned "Buffalo, Corning & New York" grade and I wonder if it bought it.

BUFFALO, TONAWANDA & NIAGARA FALLS ELECTRIC.
When the "International Ry" was formed in 1902 to consolidate the electric lines between Buffalo and Niagara Falls, it inherited four competing lines between Buffalo and Tonawanda. This one was building on a dog-leg route bending to the west, and according to the contemporary topo map managed to build up Niagara St at Buffalo to Frog Island, and from downtown Tonawanda along Fletcher and Rogers to the end of Taylor St. The IR turned the former into a Buffalo streetcar line, and seems to have abandoned the latter fairly quickly. I suspect that work was in progress to fill the gap between the two segments in 1902, when the IR took over and abandoned further progress.
(Incidentally, the corresponding dog-leg route to the east, along Egger Rd, was the "Buffalo, North Main Street and Tonawanda Ry" and was junked in 1902, one of the earliest interurban abandonments.)
salminkarkku
 

PreviousNext

Return to New York State Railfan

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests