Abandoned grade between Elmira and Big Flats

Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New York State.

Moderator: Otto Vondrak

Postby lvrr325 » Wed Mar 26, 2008 8:13 pm

You may be confusing portions of the Elmira, Cortland & Northern (eventually a Lehigh Valley branch) ROW with the freight line, as well. The EC&N came in from the west and crossed the freight main before meeting the old passenger line.

They ran parallell between Van Etten and Spencer - the LV main to Ithaca swings north there, the EC&N continued east some ways before swinging north as well. Where the main dropped down into Ithaca, the EC&N stayed on top of the hills to swing northeast again at East Ithaca. Eventually they shared one line between these two points, but all of the EC&N between Horseheads and East Ithaca was abandoned in the late 1930s.

The freight bypass was built last and swings west at Van Etten Jct. to follow more or less Route 224 as far as Odessa before it swings northward to run along Seneca Lake. The last time I was in Odessa the highway overpass was still in place, but where the LV crossed Route 13 is not only removed, the road itself has been changed enough you really have to know what you're looking for to find the ROW from the road.

The bypass was done to eliminate some steep grades on what became the passenger mainline going in and out of Ithaca.
lvrr325
 
Posts: 4178
Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 5:42 pm
Location: New York State

Postby TB Diamond » Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:02 pm

Lehigh Valley Railroad Elmira & Cortland branch abandonments (former EC&N):

Van Etten-Spencer, 2.5 miles, 1933

Ithaca-Spencer, 22 miles, 1935

Van Etten-Horseheads, 19 miles, 1938
You can't go home again- Thomas Wolfe
TB Diamond
 
Posts: 1637
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 9:40 pm
Location: Rocky Mountains

Chemung Valley Trolleys

Postby K4Pacific » Fri Mar 28, 2008 2:21 pm

I have a copy of that book. It isn't holding togther well as it is a soft cover with disintegrating glue, similar to what is ocurring to my Sheldon King DL&W book (there's a great copy in the Horseheads Center Street School Library). I'll research it more for you when I get home.

Now to the EC&N. You can see traces of the EC&N roadbed. From Elmira, you can follow from the old Thurston Street tower location up to Horseheads (which was in use by the LV until 1975 to egt to the Holding Point) Glen Mallow has some great shots. The EC&N roadbed canbe seen just south of Byrne Dairy in Horseheads - south of the two creek bridges. The right of way hugged the creek their along rte 223 past behind my house. A house in Breesport was the old Breesport Station (which is another thread someone else can copy paste). The driveway is the old cinder roadbed. The track crossed rte 233 in Erin to make it's wayout to Park Station. 223 goes up and over the hill. Once at the bottom in a little hamlet you'll see the roadbed huggingthe hill on it's way into Van Etten and then one can see the roadbed near the exisiting NS (ex-CR, nee-LV) Ithacus Branch.
Proficient on the Southern Tier Line, The former PRR Elmira Branch, A little LV, A lot of EL, And of course, the Corning Secondary. Someone always knows more than me. Remember the Binghamton yardmaster that routinely said in a high voice, "No! No! No! That's not what I told you to do!"?
K4Pacific
 
Posts: 937
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2007 3:47 pm
Location: EC&N Right of Way near Elmira Branch

Chemung Valley Trolleys

Postby K4Pacific » Fri Mar 28, 2008 2:23 pm

I have a copy of that book. It isn't holding togther well as it is a soft cover with disintegrating glue, similar to what is ocurring to my Sheldon King DL&W book (there's a great copy in the Horseheads Center Street School Library). I'll research it more for you when I get home.

Now to the EC&N. You can see traces of the EC&N roadbed. From Elmira, you can follow from the old Thurston Street tower location up to Horseheads (which was in use by the LV until 1975 to egt to the Holding Point) Glen Mallow has some great shots. The EC&N roadbed can be seen just south of Byrne Dairy in Horseheads crossing Route 13 - south of the two creek bridges. The right of way hugged the creek their along rte 223 past behind my house. Another house in Breesport was the old Breesport Station (which is another thread someone else can copy paste). The driveway is the old cinder roadbed. The track crossed rte 233 in Erin to make it's wayout to Park Station. 223 goes up and over the hill. Once at the bottom in a little hamlet you'll see the roadbed hugging the hill on it's way into Van Etten and then one can see the roadbed near the exisiting NS (ex-CR, nee-LV) Ithacus Branch.
Proficient on the Southern Tier Line, The former PRR Elmira Branch, A little LV, A lot of EL, And of course, the Corning Secondary. Someone always knows more than me. Remember the Binghamton yardmaster that routinely said in a high voice, "No! No! No! That's not what I told you to do!"?
K4Pacific
 
Posts: 937
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2007 3:47 pm
Location: EC&N Right of Way near Elmira Branch

Re:

Postby RussNelson » Wed Jan 06, 2016 11:53 pm

lvrr325 wrote:The last time I was in Odessa the highway overpass was still in place, but where the LV crossed Route 13 (in Cayuta) is not only removed, the road itself has been changed enough you really have to know what you're looking for to find the ROW from the road.


If you look on the USGS quad, you can see that NY-224 used to cross further west and at a sharper angle than it does now. The USGS topo has been revised to show the new crossing point, however the contour lines still show the old underpass and junction with NY-228. However, the railroad must have still been in place, because they put a new bridge in over the highway.

The crossing of NY-13 in Cayuta is exactly where Smith Road now joins in.

Were the EC&N and LV tracks between Spencer and Van Etten on a separate right-of-way or were they more like double tracks?
The EC&N tracks in Spencer between South Main Street and South Railroad Avenue were not torn up. I speculate that they used to serve the Agway at South Main Street.
Last edited by RussNelson on Thu Jan 07, 2016 12:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
RussNelson
 
Posts: 3786
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 1:20 am
Location: Potsdam, NY

Re: Chemung Valley Trolleys

Postby RussNelson » Thu Jan 07, 2016 12:12 am

K4Pacific wrote:A house in Breesport was the old Breesport Station (which is another thread someone else can copy paste). The driveway is the old cinder roadbed.

At the south end of Depot Road, which is a dead giveaway.
User avatar
RussNelson
 
Posts: 3786
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 1:20 am
Location: Potsdam, NY

Re: Abandoned grade between Elmira and Big Flats

Postby lvrr325 » Thu Jan 07, 2016 11:43 am

It served an oil dealer and became a MOW clear-up or bad order setout track, what was left. Somewhere have an LV era print showing it. Agway was right next to the current main.
lvrr325
 
Posts: 4178
Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 5:42 pm
Location: New York State

Re: Abandoned grade between Elmira and Big Flats

Postby TB Diamond » Thu Jan 07, 2016 7:07 pm

What is being referred to as Cayuta is correctly referred to as Alpine Junction. Alpine Jct. is where Rt. 13 crosses Rt. 224.

The EC&N and LVRR tracks Van Etten-Spencer paralleled each other on separate rights of way.
You can't go home again- Thomas Wolfe
TB Diamond
 
Posts: 1637
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 9:40 pm
Location: Rocky Mountains

Re: Abandoned grade between Elmira and Big Flats

Postby Matt Langworthy » Thu Jan 07, 2016 8:27 pm

The EC&N was lifted between Spencer and Van Etten in 1933, with traffic being rerouted to the parallel LV main for a few years. The EC&N was subsequently removed between Horseheads and Spencer in 1938.
Matt Langworthy

"It is highly likely that the 1990s were an overrated decade."
User avatar
Matt Langworthy
 
Posts: 3123
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 8:02 pm
Location: Rochester, NY

Re: Abandoned grade between Elmira and Big Flats

Postby RichCoffey » Thu Jan 07, 2016 9:16 pm

Elmira, Corning and Waverly Railway Map?
Interurbans in Red
Image
See this Forum Thread for Map URL
Awesome 1924 New York State Map (railroads & interurbans)
http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=128&t=161051
RichCoffey
 
Posts: 226
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 11:04 am

Re: Abandoned grade between Elmira and Big Flats

Postby lvrr325 » Fri Jan 08, 2016 6:14 am

The EC&N came out all the way to East Ithaca, except for the stub track at Van Etten.

Somewhere I have the report made to the ICC seeking abandonment of the line and it noted that the LV's 4-6-0s going towards Elmira would have to double the grade going out of Van Etten if they had more than about three cars. The expense of that was one of the main reasons they wanted to do away with it.

And behind The Diner on Old Ithaca Road there's a short bit of track on the LV ROW hosing a DL&W caboose and a baggage car. It's discussed in another post IIRC.
lvrr325
 
Posts: 4178
Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 5:42 pm
Location: New York State

Re: Abandoned grade between Elmira and Big Flats

Postby TB Diamond » Fri Jan 08, 2016 11:04 pm

That equipment in Horseheads on a very short segment of the old EC&N belongs to the Sullivan Bros. A few years ago, along with the equipment described above, there was the remains of a Plymouth industrial loco. Several years ago there was a saddle tank loco and a steam loco tender on display, both now long gone. The Sullivans operate a 12" (?) gauge railroad in back of the diner. One of their locos is in a LVRR-type paint scheme.
You can't go home again- Thomas Wolfe
TB Diamond
 
Posts: 1637
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 9:40 pm
Location: Rocky Mountains

Re: Abandoned grade between Elmira and Big Flats

Postby RussNelson » Sun Jun 12, 2016 12:01 am

The EC&N bridge over Pine Tree Road off 366 in Ithaca is going to be destroyed and replaced by a simulcra. http://www.tompkinscountyny.gov/highway ... t#pinetree

Does anybody here live in the Ithaca area? I am trying to get pictures of every abandoned railroad bridge in NY, and I don't have a picture of this one yet .... even though I bicycled over it. They're starting construction on Monday, so if you don't go get a picture Sunday, it might be too late.
User avatar
RussNelson
 
Posts: 3786
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 1:20 am
Location: Potsdam, NY

Re: Abandoned grade between Elmira and Big Flats

Postby charlie6017 » Sun Jun 12, 2016 7:34 am

It's not as good as getting an "up close and personal" shot, but here's a couple from Google's street-view. The first
one is looking directionally south, followed by looking to the north. :-D

Charlie

http://i926.photobucket.com/albums/ad10 ... 5subka.jpg

http://i926.photobucket.com/albums/ad10 ... tdya6p.jpg
~Charlie Ricker
User avatar
charlie6017
 
Posts: 3042
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 9:42 pm
Location: Rochester, New York

Re: Abandoned grade between Elmira and Big Flats

Postby RussNelson » Fri Jun 17, 2016 12:16 am

Thanks, Charlie. I guess that will have to do.
User avatar
RussNelson
 
Posts: 3786
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 1:20 am
Location: Potsdam, NY

PreviousNext

Return to New York State Railfan

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests