Abandoned grade between Elmira and Big Flats

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Abandoned grade between Elmira and Big Flats

Postby ricebrianrice » Wed Dec 06, 2006 7:33 am

On Route 352 between West Elmira and Big Flats there is, what looks to me, to be an abandoned grade on the east side of Route 352. In 2 places there are bridge abutments, and what look to be graded ROW.

I checked with MapTechs Historical Maps, and nothing shows on the 1895 or the 1953 map.

Any Information????

Thanks
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Postby scottychaos » Wed Dec 06, 2006 8:20 am

I have wondered about that too..
it was not any class-1 railroad, but I suspect it might have been the "Elmira, Corning and Waverly Railway"..an interurban (trolley) line.
but I have never been able to locate a route map of the railway to confirm it, so im not certain.

One car from this railway exists at the NY Transportation museum south of Rochester.


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hi

Postby thebigham » Wed Dec 06, 2006 10:01 am

I noticed this grade too.

I suspect it could be the original road.

No railroad on this map:

http://docs.unh.edu/NY/elmi95nw.jpg

Or this one:

http://docs.unh.edu/NY/elmi95ne.jpg

Here is the 1953 topo map:

http://docs.unh.edu/NY/elmi53nw.jpg

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Postby ricebrianrice » Wed Dec 06, 2006 10:32 am

Those where the same maps I was looking at, and I agree no railroad.

When I was there this weekend I looked to see if it was an old road, but it seemed odd that there is a bridge abutment that goes over the current road.

Probably was part of the Trolley system in Elmira, I need to do some research on that, and see.
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My persepctive

Postby Matt Langworthy » Wed Dec 06, 2006 12:18 pm

scottychaos wrote:I have wondered about that too..
it was not any class-1 railroad, but I suspect it might have been the "Elmira, Corning and Waverly Railway"..an interurban (trolley) line.
but I have never been able to locate a route map of the railway to confirm it, so im not certain.

One car from this railway exists at the NY Transportation museum south of Rochester.


You are correct. The trolley line was abandonned around 1939, so it won't show on any topo maps made after that. My parents used to have a book on the subject, but it got lost in a move- or perhaps my mother gave it away.

My father's earliest memory is taking the trolley to the circus (in Elmira) aronnd age 2 or 3. He doesn't remember much but my late aunt (who chaperoned him) recalled the trip was quick and pleasant.

More on this later...
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Postby calorosome » Wed Dec 06, 2006 1:01 pm

T'was the Elmira-Corning Trolley ROW that you speak of.

This time of year with the foliage down, you can spot remnants of a concrete bridge across a creek as you head towards Big Flats. Other than two concrete road overpasses and some ROW between Elmira and Big Flats, there is little left.

If you visit a restaurant in Painted Post called The Central, they have a 1923 map of the Corning/Painted Post area that shows the trolley tracks in Corning. The trolley line piggybacked on the original Erie bridge on the east side (before the 1951 relocation). East of Corning I haven't a clue where the trolley was. I believe my dad has a book on the EC Trolley system.
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Postby sd80mac » Wed Dec 06, 2006 1:15 pm

I take that it's not one of these - Erie or DLW line??
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Postby ricebrianrice » Wed Dec 06, 2006 1:23 pm

Correct it is not the Erie or the DL&W. They both go around the mountain the other way, through Horseheads.
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Postby nydepot » Wed Dec 06, 2006 4:51 pm

William Gordon's Chemung Valley Trolley book has everything you wanted to know about the line plus the extension to Waverly along the Erie. There is even a cool photo of an Erie train on an Erie bridge with a trolley below. There was basically a shelf attached to the side of the bridge partway down and the trolley used the shelf.

Includes the line to Waktins Glen, Elmira city lines, and the trolley in Hornell, NY.

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Postby U-Haul » Wed Dec 06, 2006 9:04 pm

There is also a Right of way that goes through Alpine Junction to Van Etten and then Spencer. There it would have connected to the line that now goes from Lansing NY to Sayre PA.
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Postby TB Diamond » Wed Dec 06, 2006 10:53 pm

U-Haul: That was the Lehigh Valley Railroad Seneca Freight Line. This left the Sayre-Ithaca line at Van Etten Jct. and went up the east side of Seneca Lake to Geneva Jct. It was constructed in the early 1890s in order to avoid the steep grades out of Ithaca. The tracks were removed Van Etten Jct.-Ordnance Int. in 1978.
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Postby RussNelson » Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:05 am

U-Haul wrote:There is also a Right of way that goes through Alpine Junction to Van Etten and then Spencer. There it would have connected to the line that now goes from Lansing NY to Sayre PA.

What was Alpine Junction a junction with? Did the Lehigh Valley connect with anything there? Or was the name pure optimism?
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Postby scottychaos » Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:19 am

RussNelson wrote:
U-Haul wrote:There is also a Right of way that goes through Alpine Junction to Van Etten and then Spencer. There it would have connected to the line that now goes from Lansing NY to Sayre PA.

What was Alpine Junction a junction with? Did the Lehigh Valley connect with anything there? Or was the name pure optimism?


I dont know this for a fact..but it makes sense:

I have always assumed that Alpine Junction got its name because it is located at the junction of routes 224 and 13..which are two very old roads.
so the "junction" in "alpine junction" does not refer to a railroad junction..since there never was any kind of railroad junction there!
only the LV freight main running straight through..no railroad junction of any kind.

And the town name is also much older than the arrival of the railroad.

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Postby CarterB » Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:46 am

The current Big Flats American Legion building used to belong to the Elmira, Corning and Waverly Railway. Also the The New York Museum Of Transportation (Rush NY outside Rochester) has a somewhat restored EC&W car #107.
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Postby henry6 » Wed Mar 26, 2008 12:48 pm

U-Haul wrote:There is also a Right of way that goes through Alpine Junction to Van Etten and then Spencer. There it would have connected to the line that now goes from Lansing NY to Sayre PA.


Indeed it was the Lehigh Valley main line or freight line (in that all except one passenge round trip went via Ithaca). And yes, Alpine Jct. appears o be named for the junction of the Montour Falls to Candor and Elmira to Ithaca highways.
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