Railroads near or in sight of the NYS Thruway

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Railroads near or in sight of the NYS Thruway

Postby DonPevsner » Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:19 am

I drove the Thruway east from the Rochester area yesterday,
and noticed the following:

(a)A single-track line crossing under the Thruway from south to
north, near MP 325-326. I was under the impression that the only
line to have done this about 37 miles west of Syracuse was the long-abandoned PRR Elmira-Newark-Sodus Point line. Can anyone identify this
railroad?

(b)A stone bridge abutment next to a road crossed by the Thruway
via overpass, near MP301. Would this have been the old West Shore,
or an interurban?

Thank you.
Last edited by DonPevsner on Wed Jul 19, 2006 7:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby BR&P » Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:23 am

The line about MP 326 was the ex-NYC Fall Brook (Fallbrook?) line, now owned by NS and used by FGLK. The segment you saw goes north to Lyons and south to Geneva.

The stone abutment near Syracuse was an old electric line I believe. There was a thread here on the NYS forum about 4-5 months ago listing all the rail crossings along the Thruway, it's probably still there if you work your way back through the pages.
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Postby Otto Vondrak » Wed Jul 19, 2006 10:26 am

This question gets asked very often, because we all see ROW's and old bridges that we are not familiar with as we drive along the Thruway. I'm going to leave this one as a sticky for a while so we can discuss this topic and cover all of those "What was that?" questions we often get...


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Re: Railroads near or in sight of the NYS Thruway

Postby overseer » Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:10 pm

DonPevsner wrote:I drove the Thruway east from the Rochester area yesterday,
and noticed the fiollowing:

(a)A single-track line crossing under the Thruway from south to
north, near MP 325-326. I was under the impression that the only
line to have done this about 37 miles west of Syracuse was the long-abandoned PRR Elmira-Newark-Sodus Point line. Can anyone identify this
railroad?

(b)A stone bridge abutment next to a road crossed by the Thruway
via overpass, near MP301. Would this have been the old West Shore,
or an interurban?

Thank you.


The Stone Bridge abutmnet was this an Arch style one near MP301 on the south side of the Truway just befor you pass the warners Rest Area? If this is the one in question it was once a road Bridge that was taken out when the new road was put in just to the East of it.

The Single track line near the Lyons/Geneva Exit off RT 90 is the Corning Secondary owned by NS leased to FGLK it is not the fallbrook line thats befor the Lyons/Geneva Exit off RT 90.
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Postby nessman » Wed Jul 19, 2006 11:42 pm

I posted a list a year or so ago on here, with GPS coordinates from the NY/PA border to somewhere east of Utica.

Here it is: http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9247
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Postby RussNelson » Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:25 pm

Nice job, Nessman!

Anybody have any information on this point:
http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=42.51263,-79.19070&z=17&t=T
and this point?
http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=42.47922,-79.26524&z=15&t=T
There is clearly a former railbed crossing the thruway at these two points. It's marked on the topo map as a power line, but .... power companies don't bother with bridges, cuts and fills. I DO NOT have it in my database of NYS Railroad Routes (http://russnelson.com/nyrr/) so I'm interested in any information anybody might have. I suspect an interurban between Dunkirk and Silver Creek. Both of them had trolley lines, but I see no mention of an interurban.
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Postby RussNelson » Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:49 pm

Should this point be listed since I90 parallels this railroad for a bit?
http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=42.83799,-78.79300&z=15&t=T
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Postby nessman » Fri Jul 21, 2006 10:21 am

RussNelson wrote:Nice job, Nessman!

Thanks!

Anybody have any information on this point:
http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=42.51263,-79.19070&z=17&t=T
and this point?
http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=42.47922,-79.26524&z=15&t=T
There is clearly a former railbed crossing the thruway at these two points.

I disagree... it appears to be a power line ROW.
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Postby RussNelson » Fri Jul 21, 2006 11:01 am

Could you clarify? Are you saying that it appears from be a power line ROW by looking at it on the map? Or have you seen it on the ground? There are a lot of trolley lines that got turned into powerline ROWs (e.g. RS&E here: http://www.perinton.org/biking.cfm ), and there are too many cuts and fills for me to believe that it's really a power line as the topo depicts it.
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Postby nessman » Fri Jul 21, 2006 7:50 pm

I double-checked with my SPV atlas... there's no trolley line there... but there were many lesser interurbans that were long forgotten. There's an abandoned RR ROW just to the north (Erie) - but what you are referring to isn't it.
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Postby Noel Weaver » Sat Jul 22, 2006 12:55 am

nessman wrote:I double-checked with my SPV atlas... there's no trolley line there... but there were many lesser interurbans that were long forgotten. There's an abandoned RR ROW just to the north (Erie) - but what you are referring to isn't it.


I should remind you all that the SPV maps do not show all of the former
and abandoned trolley lines in New York State. The ones that had freight
service and interchanged freight with a common carrier railroad were
shown but others were not.
There was an abandoned trolley line that crossed over the NYC main line
at a point west of Belle Isle and east of Jordan, think it was between
Memphis and Jordan then the line paralleled the NYC west. This line had
the metal poles for the trolley wires still standing and in use for power
lines until sometime in the 60's when they were finally replaced.
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Postby RussNelson » Sat Jul 22, 2006 1:48 am

East of Weedsport has a very complicated history. You have the old Erie Canal, the NYC line from Syracuse to Churchville ( http://rutlandtrail.org/list.cgi?nyc-sy ... e.ny.track ), the Erie-Lackawana from Rochester to Syracuse ( http://rutlandtrail.org/list.cgi?el-roc ... e.ny.track ), the Lehigh Valley from Owego to Weedsport ( http://rutlandtrail.org/list.cgi?lv-owe ... t.ny.track ) (which crosses I90), and the Lyons to Weedsport Trolley (the actual name of which is probably different than that) ( http://rutlandtrail.org/list.cgi?lyons- ... y.ny.track ).

Phwew! That's a mouthfull!

I think Noel is talking about this spot: http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=43.08499,-76.41601&z=16&t=T You can see where the trolley coming in from the SSW crosses the NYC and I90).

Also, the same trolley crosses back to the north here:
http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=43.02796,-76.66054&z=16&t=T Between here and Port Byron to the east, I90 is built on the trolley railbed. At this point it leaves I90 and crosses the Old Erie Canal.
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Postby toddsyr » Sun Jul 23, 2006 7:47 am

Erie-Lackawanna from Rochester to Syracuse? Don't you mean New York Central in the above post? Unless you know something I don't, lol. Of course that's entirely possible! I hate to nitpick, we're all human, but you have me wondering on this. Todd
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Postby scharnhorst » Sun Aug 06, 2006 3:14 am

[quote="RussNelson"]East of Weedsport has a very complicated history. You have the old Erie Canal, the NYC line from Syracuse to Churchville ( http://rutlandtrail.org/list.cgi?nyc-sy ... e.ny.track ), the Erie-Lackawana from Rochester to Syracuse ( http://rutlandtrail.org/list.cgi?el-roc ... e.ny.track ), the Lehigh Valley from Owego to Weedsport ( http://rutlandtrail.org/list.cgi?lv-owe ... t.ny.track ) (which crosses I90), and the Lyons to Weedsport Trolley (the actual name of which is probably different than that) ( http://rutlandtrail.org/list.cgi?lyons- ... y.ny.track ).quote]

there was an Auburn and Port Byron Trolly which ran along rt 38 to Port Byron, NY as well.

I think the SPV Atlas was only covering railroads and not trollys being that there are just to many to count in NY alone the book would be much thicker.

The trolly line from Rochester to Syracuse ran into Port Byron cut threw the Key Bank Parking lot and traveled just to the South of 31 an it to Weedsport where it had a yard on Weedsport-Sennett Road (Current location of Blue Apartment complex) The Lehigh was a littl ways east of that complex and traveled over the trolly on a bridge it then crossed over Senica Street at grade next to the high school and then went up grade on a bridge over 31 which was taken down in the 80's. The trolly stayed south of 31 which is the current site of a power line all the way to Jordon and onto Memphis and so on into Syracuse. The West Shore traveled from Lyons on the South Side of the NYC till it got to Savannah then it crossed over the NYC next to home sted meats in Savannah then followed along to the North of the NYC till it got to Port Byron it then crossed over were RT 90 is went over the NYC on a bridge crossed over 31 and the Trolly line and diped a little bit south of Weedsport then swong back North over 31 to follow the along the north side of the NYC all the way to belle isle yard befor crossing over the DL&W and NYC in Syracuse and staying along the south side of the NYC all threw Syracuse. Its a hard route to follow but once its traced out on a map its easyer to understand its routeing.
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Postby RussNelson » Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:00 am

toddsyr wrote:Erie-Lackawanna from Rochester to Syracuse? Don't you mean New York Central in the above post? Unless you know something I don't, lol. Of course that's entirely possible! I hate to nitpick, we're all human, but you have me wondering on this. Todd


In my database, I usually label railroads by whatever label I can find on a map. Of course, railroad ownership has changed, changed, and changed again over the years. However, if you can refer me to some place which has better information, please do!
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