LV from the Genesee River to Stafford

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LV from the Genesee River to Stafford

Postby nydepot » Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:35 pm

I'm having trouble finding the right documents that show the status of 1 or 2 tracks between the Genesee River and Stafford at the end of the LV's existence. Either I can't find an LV document or the CR chart I found is missing parts between the river and Stafford.

I know Stafford interlocking starts two tracks to Batavia. And I know P&L Jct has two tracks but I don't know where the tracks revert to single track either side of P&L. I also know there is a Wheatland interlocking but I'm not sure if it's the beginning of 2 tracks to the west or the end of 2 tracks from the east.

Thanks for the help.

Charles
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Re: LV from the Genesee River to Stafford

Postby lvrr325 » Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:46 pm

Looking at the speed limit chart in my 1975 timetable, it shows a 25 MPH restriction under the single track column, for between MP 397 and switch at General Crushed Stone at Leroy. So I would guess this section was single track. From what this indicates most of this end was operated as single track with passing sidings.
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Re: LV from the Genesee River to Stafford

Postby nydepot » Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:54 pm

P&L was 394.1, GCS was 400.3.

The CR (LV estate) chart shows two tracks on either side of P&L but obviously within the 3 miles from there (your 397) it was back to 1 track.
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Re: LV from the Genesee River to Stafford

Postby lvrr325 » Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:40 pm

P&L Jct and Stafford are the interlockings on each side of that stretch.
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Re: LV from the Genesee River to Stafford

Postby TB Diamond » Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:56 pm

On March 31, 1976, at the Genesee River bridge, the LVRR was single track which continued westward to Wheatland Int., MP 391.7 where it became two tracks, No. 1 Main and No. 2 Main. This terminated at P&L Jct. MP 394.1 where it once again returned to Single Track. This segment of single track terminated at Stafford Int., MP 406.5 where it converted to Single Track (former MT 2) and Passing Siding (former MT 1). This arrangement ended at Batavia Int. MP 411 where single track continued on west.

Believe the 25 mph speed restriction mentioned by LV325 above was where a curve resulting from a realignment from old MT 1 over to old MT 2 was located. Believe the Lehigh made this realignment in order to keep its connection with General Crushed Stone without modification.
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Re: LV from the Genesee River to Stafford

Postby BR&P » Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:48 pm

TB Diamond wrote:On March 31, 1976, at the Genesee River bridge, the LVRR was single track.....


....which looked like this a few months later, as seen from a speeder.

LV Genesee River.jpg
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Re: LV from the Genesee River to Stafford

Postby nydepot » Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:17 am

Thanks. One reason I asked is because this chart:

http://www.multimodalways.org/docs/rail ... 1-1978.pdf

from 1978 shows the area around P&L Jct and it shows 2 tracks past 394.1 (pages 13-14). So I thought maybe the 2 tracks lasted through to 397. Unfortunately the map doesn't pick up again until 400.

Here is one section:

PL.JPG
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Re: LV from the Genesee River to Stafford

Postby FarmallBob » Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:00 pm

Charles - I have a copy of the track signal chart for the LV between Sayre and Buffalo dated Jan 17, 1971.

West of the Genesee it shows double track between the following interlockings :

WHEATLAND (mp 391.7) and P & L JCT (394.1)
STAFFORD (406.5) and BATAVIA (411.0)
WYOMING (432.3) and TIFFT JCT (442.7)

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Re: LV from the Genesee River to Stafford

Postby nydepot » Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:10 pm

Thank you Sir. Who says Conrail was perfect....
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Re: LV from the Genesee River to Stafford

Postby lvrr325 » Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:11 pm

Kind of wonder if some of the other main was kept as a switching lead or siding.

I about guarantee someone has a photo of this stretch, maybe on one of the Facebook groups. That would answer the question for certain.
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Re: LV from the Genesee River to Stafford

Postby TB Diamond » Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:57 pm

Former MT 2 extended west past P&L Jct. Int. (MP 394.1) to a point 5180 feet east of MP 397.0 and was designated as P&L Jct. Tail Track, this effective June 24, 1969.

Therefore the track chart shown above has the appearance that double track continued past P&L Jct. which was not, in fact, the case.

Between Stafford Int. and Batavia Int. the two tracks are properly identified as Passing Siding and Single Track per Zone E G.O. No. 909 effective June 24, 1969, not double track and there is a difference.

The same designations go for the tracks between Wheatland Int. and P&L Jct. Int. per Zone E G.O. 912 effective July 7, 1970.
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Re: LV from the Genesee River to Stafford

Postby nydepot » Thu Jan 17, 2019 8:14 am

Did this tail track just end at a bumper or was it tied back into the main?

TB Diamond wrote:Former MT 2 extended west past P&L Jct. Int. (MP 394.1) to a point 5180 feet east of MP 397.0 and was designated as P&L Jct. Tail Track, this effective June 24, 1969.
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Re: LV from the Genesee River to Stafford

Postby FarmallBob » Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:19 pm

nydepot wrote:Did this tail track just end at a bumper or was it tied back into the main?


Charles - If memory serves (it's been 45 years!) tail track ended in an improvised bumper, a pair of crisscrossed ties a few feet from the end of the rails. The track did NOT tie back to the main.

This is consistent with the 1971 signal diagram. It graphically depicts the tail track dead ending approx midway between the P&L eastbound home signal and distant signal #3962.

Incidentally the tail track was track circuited (circuit #75LAT) it's entire length. Seems a bit curious (to me anyway) as the few times I observed the track occupied it was with cars apparently in storage.

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Re: LV from the Genesee River to Stafford

Postby TB Diamond » Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:13 pm

The P&L Jct. Tail Track was utilized on occasion to hold coal loads destined for the Milliken Station at Lake Ridge, NY. On November 20, 1973 MR-1 pulled coal loads that had been delivered by the B&O out of the P&L Jct. Yard and shoved them into the P&L Jct. Tail Track for eventual pickup. This pickup was accomplished by a cab hop out of Tifft Terminal. MR-1 could travel west from Manchester to do work at P&L Jct. without penalty on dispatcher orders.

The P&L Jct. Tail Track was also used, if only on rare occasions, to hold a train. On April 21, 1975 BPL-6 with RS3 No. 215 shoved back in the clear of the eastbound absolute signal on the P&L Jct. Tail Track in order to clear a e/b freight powered by Alco C420 No. 410.

As mentioned earlier above, the P&L Jct. Tail Track extended west to a point 5180 feet east of MP 397.
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Re: LV from the Genesee River to Stafford

Postby lvrr325 » Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:44 pm

It was circuited because it used to be the main track and it's likely they had to retain the circuits to avoid making other, perhaps major changes to the signals there, much like in PA at Lehighton where a signal remained for a track that was entirely removed.

FWIW, last night for the first time I can remember I had to wait on Route 5 for a train going south on the G&W.
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