ONCT/FGLK rails under Route 322

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ONCT/FGLK rails under Route 322

Postby sd80mac » Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:08 am

BR&P-

Didn't you said that OCRR was happy to get new CWR for your re-aligned track, done by and paid by state?? I recall that you (or someone else) mentioned that somewhere in this forum. I may be wrong on this... Are we all getting older and older?? :P :-D

Yesterday, I was driving underneath 322 to head north to Macedon, I noticed that the rails are now joint rails... IF there was CWR, then I guess FLRR took it out to use it somewhere else.
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Re: OCRR/FLRR rails under RT 322

Postby BR&P » Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:48 am

No the ONCT (not OCRR) never had CWR there. When the track was re-aligned it was stick rail, although with all new ties and ballast. The new track was a nice improvement.

The turnout from the old Dekalb siding within that stretch was re-used on what became Agrilink, later T&K Warehouse, just west of the Shortsville interchange.
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Re: OCRR/FLRR rails under RT 322

Postby sd80mac » Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:18 am

BR&P wrote:No the ONCT (not OCRR) never had CWR there. When the track was re-aligned it was stick rail, although with all new ties and ballast. The new track was a nice improvement.

The turnout from the old Dekalb siding within that stretch was re-used on what became Agrilink, later T&K Warehouse, just west of the Shortsville interchange.


the ONCT (not OCRR)
Ugh Fingers got their own mind... sorry for misnaming.

thanks. Didn't you mentioned CWR somewhere else?
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Re: OCRR/FLRR rails under RT 322

Postby BR&P » Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:45 am

Well, it's been about 11 years since FGLK took over the line, and I really don't remember what was done at Rt 21 for the bridge removal. It's possible they put a short stretch of CRW through the crossing so there were no joints within the road (a source of maintenance headaches) but I don't recall for sure. You've got me wracking my brain but I just don't remember welded rail, other than maybe a place or two where that was done. But I reserve the right to be wrong! :wink:

One thing about CWR is once its length exceeds so many feet, IIRC it generates additional inspection requirements and/or reports. And installing it on such a lightly used line as ONCT would be impractical and hard to justify.
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Re: OCRR/FLRR rails under RT 322

Postby clearblock » Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:58 am

BR&P wrote:One thing about CWR is once its length exceeds so many feet, IIRC it generates additional inspection requirements and/or reports. And installing it on such a lightly used line as ONCT would be impractical and hard to justify.


49CFR 213.119(i)(3) "Continuous Welded Rail (CWR) means rail that has been welded together into lengths exceeding 400 feet.

In addition to the inspection procedures for CWR detailed in 213.119(f) there are also detailed installation, maintenance, monitoring and operations procedures in 213.119 that do indeed not look like something you would want to get involved with on a "lightly used line".
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Re: OCRR/FLRR rails under RT 322

Postby sd80mac » Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:18 am

BR&P wrote:Well, it's been about 11 years since FGLK took over the line, and I really don't remember what was done at Rt 21 for the bridge removal. It's possible they put a short stretch of CRW through the crossing so there were no joints within the road (a source of maintenance headaches) but I don't recall for sure. You've got me wracking my brain but I just don't remember welded rail, other than maybe a place or two where that was done. But I reserve the right to be wrong! :wink:

One thing about CWR is once its length exceeds so many feet, IIRC it generates additional inspection requirements and/or reports. And installing it on such a lightly used line as ONCT would be impractical and hard to justify.



maybe I was thinking of some other place? I thought it was you that you said that... sorry for thinking it was you.
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Re: OCRR/FLRR rails under RT 322

Postby BR&P » Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:04 pm

No apology needed, and I feel bad for not being able to answer your question. For the vast majority of ONCT's life, there was no welded rail, none. The relocation under Rt 332 (not Rt 322) was with stick rail. The only place welded rail might have been put in was at the Manchester bridge removal and I just don't remember whether that was the case or not. Somewhere I still have a thick file on the engineering for that project and if I come across it I'll look.

Somewhere there are pics of the Manchester railroad park with the Conrail caboose and now the 2 LV boxcars. Maybe the background of some of those pics will show the rail on the main.
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Re: OCRR/FLRR rails under RT 322

Postby BandA » Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:59 am

CWR also increases the problem of thermal stress
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Re: OCRR/FLRR rails under RT 322

Postby lvrr325 » Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:36 am

Fun fact; in 1995 prior to selling the Geneva cluster to Finger Lakes, Conrail pulled up the rail from the LV at Kendaia for what IIRC was an out of service siding, per the hirail crew checking it, to be welded up and re-used elsewhere. I had hiked in to try to catch them actually working the Depot and caught a ride out with them.

I would expect if any welded rail ever made it into what became the ONCT they pulled it back out.
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Re: OCRR/FLRR rails under RT 322

Postby BR&P » Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:17 am

lvrr325 wrote:Fun fact; in 1995 prior to selling the Geneva cluster to Finger Lakes, Conrail pulled up the rail from the LV at Kendaia for what IIRC was an out of service siding, per the hirail crew checking it, to be welded up and re-used elsewhere. I had hiked in to try to catch them actually working the Depot and caught a ride out with them.

I would expect if any welded rail ever made it into what became the ONCT they pulled it back out.


ONCT started in 1979 and there was never any CWR on it.

I don't know whether LV had any CWR anywhere on the system or not. I do know that at some point well prior to Conrail, LV removed the rail from the main line between about the Rt 21 bridge in Manchester, westward to about MP361 just east of Rt 96, to use on something else. What had been a yard lead became the main track and it was in poor condition. Further, at the west end the turnout from the main to the yard lead had been part of a crossover and was rather sharp. It required a slow speed even after the turnout was removed and the lead became the main.

LV guys have told of long westbounds creeping slowly over the spot, but as the head end got farther along they would notch out the throttle. By the time the caboose reached the former crossover they were highballing, and it was snapped around violently like an amusement ride, dumping loose items to the floor and prompting blistering words from the rear end crew.
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Re: OCRR/FLRR rails under RT 322

Postby TB Diamond » Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:26 pm

The LVRR had CWR between Gilbert station and about MP 305.

On August 21,1978 I followed and photographed the first CWR scrap empty Geneva Jct. to MP 306. The train had CR loco 8022 and a former LVRR crew. My notes relate that the cars were for Kelly Scrap.This eastward move was halted by a sun kink at about MP 306.

On August 31,1978 a lite move was made from Geneva to MP 305 in order to pick up the loaded CWR train. Followed this move plus the westward loaded train that day. This train had a CR RS3m for power, No. 9957.

There was another segment of CWR between Wyoming and Batavia Int.
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Re: OCRR/FLRR rails under RT 322

Postby lvrr325 » Sat Oct 06, 2018 2:38 pm

a derailment wiped out some switches and the yard lead "temporary" fix became permanent, so far as I recall.

To this day there's a kink near the Rt. 96 crossing where the alignment changes from one track to the other.
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Re: OCRR/FLRR rails under RT 322

Postby CPSmith » Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:27 pm

Nope. Sorry. Didn't happen. The "kink" is what was referred to as the the "zig-zag" in ONCT times (pictured). The track on the right was removed. The track under the train is the crap bequeathed to us by the LV estate.
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Re: OCRR/FLRR rails under RT 322

Postby BR&P » Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:27 pm

ONCT repaired the zig-zag after a derailment in the early 2000's, then later had the sharpness taken out of it by making both ends more gradual. This allowed a higher speed to be maintained through that stretch. I just stopped home briefly, will provide more specifics tomorrow evening.
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Re: OCRR/FLRR rails under RT 322

Postby nydepot » Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:55 pm

Interesting the highest-trafficked thread here is the type of rail under a highway bridge.
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