Attica NS derailment 2/15/18

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Re: Attica NS derailment 2/15/18

Postby sd80mac » Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:58 am

oibu wrote:I'll say this- if they just throw some stone or compacted soil in the hole and start running trains tomorrow, I sure has heck wouldn't want to be anywhere near it!!.



They would do it right way. they must compact the gravel and soil every 1 ft layer. they cant dump whole thing and compact at the top of the pile.

Once they did that, they're good to go. BTW, compaction comes with the testing to ensure that it's solid compaction... I had done the testing years years ago...
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Re: Attica NS derailment 2/15/18

Postby sd80mac » Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:01 am

BR&P wrote:Another possible issue, and harder to see beforehand, is a case where a part of the roof collapsed mid-culvert. Material can drop straight down into the culvert, and if there is a rapid flow of water it can get washed out. Eventually the void above can get so big that the track structure is affected. This can be hard to spot sometimes, as from outside the embankment looks normal and you may have no idea there is a big empty pocket inside.

Obviously this is speculation on my part, but obviously SOMETHING similar to this came into play. Fortunately the results, bad as they were, were not worse.



I'm with BR&P on that one. There was picture showing a "sinkhole" right in middle of track that train was on. the jeep was barely swallowed completely in that picture.
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Re: Attica NS derailment 2/15/18

Postby oibu » Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:26 pm

sd80mac wrote:
oibu wrote:I'll say this- if they just throw some stone or compacted soil in the hole and start running trains tomorrow, I sure has heck wouldn't want to be anywhere near it!!.



They would do it right way. they must compact the gravel and soil every 1 ft layer. they cant dump whole thing and compact at the top of the pile.

Once they did that, they're good to go. BTW, compaction comes with the testing to ensure that it's solid compaction... I had done the testing years years ago...


I guess perhaps you hadn't seen the "civil engineer" part in one of those posts. Yes, that's basically how they -should- do it. It was just a statement, based on those who were already saying it would only be a day or so to get track reopened, that I hoped they would actually do the right thing and not try the "cheap and fast, do it quick while no one is looking" approach just to get things opened that quickly. Obviously it took longer than those original speculations of only 24-48 hrs to get things moving, but also not as long as I thought it might. Hopefully that means they did a proper correction and that it was just not quite as serious or extensive an issue as I had initially expected based on the limited photos and information, and not that they took the fast and cheap "just get track open, don't worry about the rest" approach.

No worries, all is good.
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Re: Attica NS derailment 2/15/18

Postby ctclark1 » Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:43 pm

I can't speak exactly as to how the railbed was built up, but I can tell you that the trucks from County Line stone were running approximately every 20-30 minutes for quite some time, I'd say at least 24 hours (except for some delays when an unrelated accident at Rt20 and Rt238 in Darien created some havoc of its own and required them to detour a different way). I'm to understand that a portion of this was to build the temporary road and work area through the field but I have to imagine that some of it went into the railbed too.

I do not have exact information, this is somewhat educated guess based on a number of different sources, but am I correct in my deductions that the panel track I saw in some of the later "update" footage from various news sources went in to repair the passing siding first, which I believe they are now running at restricted speed? (Every time I've seen the signal at ATTICA over the last few days, if it isn't at STOP it's indicating entry into the siding...) Are they planning to bring the main back up to full completion (fully repaired bed, weld in new ribbon, etc) before reopening? And if that is the case, would they then leave the panel track in the siding or would they then take the siding OOS to replace the panels?
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Re: Attica NS derailment 2/15/18

Postby C2629 » Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:22 am

NS D&H dispatcher just gave 28N an update for track one from 10 mph to 25 mph.
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Re: Attica NS derailment 2/15/18

Postby sd80mac » Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:12 am

oibu wrote:I guess perhaps you hadn't seen the "civil engineer" part in one of those posts. Yes, that's basically how they -should- do it. It was just a statement, based on those who were already saying it would only be a day or so to get track reopened, that I hoped they would actually do the right thing and not try the "cheap and fast, do it quick while no one is looking" approach just to get things opened that quickly. Obviously it took longer than those original speculations of only 24-48 hrs to get things moving, but also not as long as I thought it might. Hopefully that means they did a proper correction and that it was just not quite as serious or extensive an issue as I had initially expected based on the limited photos and information, and not that they took the fast and cheap "just get track open, don't worry about the rest" approach.

No worries, all is good.



plenty of eyes were on this mess... they cant get away with it.

they were doing it 48 hours.. that's good 6 shifts which means 6 business days. That's reasonable time to complete the job. It was not completely wash out. It was sinkhole, if you saw the picture that shows it clearly.

They just remove loose soils and create "steps" or "ladders". Also they remove the soils, where sinkhole was, until they hit the solid ground and fill it up from there. They don't remove whole thing all the way to the footing of the culvert. They're not doing it cheap and fast. They would do it economic way and STILL have to follow the standard design of trackbed and expect that to last and in good shape. Also there's a reason for 10 mph restriction for period of time to catch any thing that weren't built properly. Right now they're doing it at 25 mph.
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Re: Attica NS derailment 2/15/18

Postby C2629 » Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:30 pm

Around nine oclock this morning the 10 mph slow order on the siding was removed.
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Re: Attica NS derailment 2/15/18

Postby C2629 » Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:37 pm

Now today 310 called a 10 mph slow order for the siding. Today there were a few things left from the wreck that were not visabile last Friday.
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Re: Attica NS derailment 2/15/18

Postby thebigham » Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:58 am

http://www.thedailynewsonline.com/bdn01 ... t-20180323

Investigation: Culvert failure cited in Attica train derailment
By MATT SURTEL
MSURTEL@BATAVIANEWS.COM
PUBLISHED: FRIDAY, MARCH 23, 2018

A culvert failure has been blamed for the Feb. 15 train derailment that injured two crewmen and sent burning locomotives into a nearby field.

“Norfolk Southern’s investigation has determined that a culvert failure due to high water caused the derailment,” said Norfolk Southern Railway Spokesman Jonathan Glass. “The culvert failure resulted in a washout of the track where the derailment occurred.”

“Regarding the two locomotives that derailed, Norfolk Southern plans to remove and repair the engine blocks on both locomotives,” he said. “The repair work will be done at Norfolk Southern’s Juniata Locomotive Shop in Altoona, Pa. The locomotive frames and trucks (wheel sets) will be scrapped and salvaged.”
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