Erie photo location

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Re: Erie photo location

Postby Matt Langworthy » Tue Nov 28, 2017 1:19 pm

The DL&W crossed over the Erie RR in Chemung and was on the other side of the river in Ashland. The Southern Tier Expressway (i.e. I-186/Route 17) was built either on or next to the DL&W ROW in 1962. I have attached a map so you can see where the DL&W was/is relative to the Erie. I also circled the location on the Erie where I think the photo was shot. The track is straight for a few miles there, and a tightly cropped shot could leave the hills out of the photo.

P.S. I am not 100% sure where the town line is, so the circled location might be in the Town of Ashland or the Town of Chemung,
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Re: Erie photo location

Postby tree68 » Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:29 pm

charlie6017 wrote:
JoeS wrote:Where exactly is Ashland?


Halfway between Catskill and Oneonta........on the opposite side of the state. 😵

Charlie

That's the hamlet/village named Ashland. The town of Ashland (Chemung County) is the area being discussed.

Went to Historical Aerials and found a spot in the area Matt noted with a farmstead in the proper location, and it looks like the buildings are the same. The aerial photo is from 1944.

Those farm buildings are now all gone, based on current imagery.
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Re: Erie photo location

Postby sd80mac » Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:25 pm

Matt Langworthy wrote:The DL&W crossed over the Erie RR in Chemung and was on the other side of the river in Ashland. The Southern Tier Expressway (i.e. I-186/Route 17) was built either on or next to the DL&W ROW in 1962. I have attached a map so you can see where the DL&W was/is relative to the Erie. I also circled the location on the Erie where I think the photo was shot. The track is straight for a few miles there, and a tightly cropped shot could leave the hills out of the photo.

P.S. I am not 100% sure where the town line is, so the circled location might be in the Town of Ashland or the Town of Chemung,


ok it's the same area... but if you look at north side of track, you would see access road, which I thought would be possible former track bed. the access road and trees/shrubs aren't in the photo which would indicate that access road in google map.

If you lick "direction to here" it would say Elmira... I don't know why...

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Re: Erie photo location

Postby TrainDetainer » Tue Nov 28, 2017 6:38 pm

That photo is not at Stanley Roberts Road. Matt's circled area is too far east of the photo location - there are only about 15 car lengths between the photographer's location and the xing (about 2 car-lengths between poles). I see about 6 cars and 4 F units plus a couple car lengths between trains. There is a ROW next to the track referred to by sd80mac - the Elmira, Corning and Waverly streetcar/interurban line, and the Erie's pole line was on the south side through there because of it. The EC&W track would be exactly where the pole line is in the photo. You can pick out the poles on the south side in the '44 historic aerial. Other reasons it's not:
--The xing shows flashers, something that was never at Roberts Road (private farm xing).
--The road is at about a 45 degree angle to the RR in the photo and Roberts Road is not.
--The road in the photo has a utility pole line along it that runs over the Erie and northeast out of the photo (road and fence are mostly hidden by the narrow wheatfield in the photo right). There never was any road or pole line going that way or a reason for one.
--The large forest area on the right doesn't/didn't exist between Roberts Road and where the river comes alongside the RR at the west end of the tangent. Except for a couple of thin hedgerows it's just open fields all the way to the river.
--In spite of the haze in the photo, the low rise in the photo above the train is the base of a prominent hill adjacent to the south side of the track at the west end of the tangent going (WB) into Wellsburg which would be very visible if the photo was at Roberts.
--The road in the photo that runs to the southwest from the xing goes off into a wide valley, and the Roberts Road area tapers quickly to a narrow shelf between the hills and the river at Wellsburg.
--The buildings in the photo do NOT match the real Roberts Road farm. There is only one roof ridge that matches the '44 and '68 aerial photos and no large trees next to them on the south and far more roofs in the photo than the historic aerials.

I cannot think of a single place between Buffalo and Port Jervis that matches this location. I think you need to look west of Buffalo.

The search continues...
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Re: Erie photo location

Postby sd80mac » Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:07 am

I would agree with above comment. I was looking for approx. 35-45 degree skew to RR on north side, but it veers more toward to west on south side, probably around 60 degree.

Other thing to point out is that the track bed in photo is about 5' above ground.

The track bed in the google is probably at 10' you can see few bridges to allow animals and water (due to frequently river flooding) but vehicles cannot go underneath the bridges.

Also there should be a power line that run across the field, parallel to the road on north side. I don't think power line don't change as much as track changes.

Wait... Now it seems that road is at 60 degree whole way with "s" at the grade crossing for visual safety.. I couldn't see the road until I saw poles sticking out of ground at far right. and now I realize that the power lines on far right is actual along the road.
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Re: Erie photo location

Postby Matt Langworthy » Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:19 pm

Based on Mr Detainer's information, I now agree Ashland is not in the picture, so to speak. With the photo being labelled NY, is there any possibility of the location being somewhere in Cattaraugus or Chatauqua Counties? Alleghany County seems doubtful because of EL had alot of curves there and was single track east of Cuba Jct.
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Re: Erie photo location

Postby nydepot » Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:18 pm

It was not labeled NY. It was supposedly NY, as my first post said. I'm thinking OH or IN now.

Matt Langworthy wrote:Based on Mr Detainer's information, I now agree Ashland is not in the picture, so to speak. With the photo being labelled NY, is there any possibility of the location being somewhere in Cattaraugus or Chatauqua Counties? Alleghany County seems doubtful because of EL had alot of curves there and was single track east of Cuba Jct.
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Re: Erie photo location

Postby JoeS » Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:23 pm

I explored the Erie ROW west of Meadville on Google and came up with three possibilities:

1. Stratton road, West Salem Ohio... Buildings in the right spot however there is no road (West Salem Rd) on the south side of the tracks as there is now.

2. County Line Rd. between Alger and Harrod, OH. The angle of the crossing is wrong and the pole line along the intersecting road is on wrong side of the road.

3. N400W Rd, Pershing IN... the buildings on the right side in the photo look farther away than in the Google overhead shot. Other than that...

I also looked again in WNY after reading Matt's last post and I don't see any place where a long tangent, flat profile double track segment would be. One possible location is the Stone Rd crossing east of Falconer but I believe the tracks were much further apart at that spot.
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Re: Erie photo location

Postby tree68 » Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:50 pm

Isn't railroad archaeology fun?
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