LV milepost help

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LV milepost help

Postby nydepot » Mon Oct 30, 2017 7:47 pm

Where would LV milepost “RS 379”, with the RS over the 379, be located? What is the RS for? Thanks.

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Re: LV milepost help

Postby lvrr325 » Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:00 pm

Rochester Jct. is 379.5. The only thing I can imagine is the milepost is on the branch and numbered from New York, but my late timetable isn't listed that way.
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Re: LV milepost help

Postby CPSmith » Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:24 pm

Rush Siding or Rochester Siding ? (Just a guess)

From another thread (Thanks, TB):

Quaker Int., MP 378.3, was the east end of a passing siding that extended from Rush Int., MP 381.9 to Quaker Int. This interlocking was established when CTC was put into effect between Rush and Blacksmith on 21 March 1972. Quaker Int. was controlled by the Niagara Jct. tower in Depew, NY. The interlocking plant was located just west of Quaker Meeting House Road.
Last edited by CPSmith on Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: LV milepost help

Postby BR&P » Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:04 pm

I don't know.

How was the Hemlock branch identified? Wasn't originally the Rochester & Southern? (Not to be confused with the present-day GWI operation by the same name).
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Re: LV milepost help

Postby TB Diamond » Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:50 pm

The LVRR added a branch line from Rochester Jct. south to the shore of Hemlock Lake which was added to the Rochester & Honeoye Valley (Rochester Jct.-Rochester, constructed in 1891) to form in 1895 what was then referred to as the Rochester & Southern Railroad. The R&S capital stock was entirely held by the Lehigh Valley Railroad.

The Rochester & Southern eventually became known as the Rochester branch, 28.3 miles, Hemlock-Rochester.

Info from A History of the Lehigh Valley Railroad by Robert F. Archer and LVRR ETT No. 7 dated Oct. 25, 1959.
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Re: LV milepost help

Postby scottychaos » Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:37 am

So, adding up everything up in this thread..
Rochester Junction was 379.5. (thats probably the passenger station location)
Half a mile east of there would be 379.0

The Hemlock branch met the mainline at a Wye.
If you were coming north up the branch from Hemlock, you could take a west or east leg of the Wye to go west or east on the mainline.
If you were Westbound on the mainline coming into Rochester Junction, you would first hit the east leg of the Wye..which happened to be located..half a mile east of the depot!
It all adds up..

Milepost RS 379 must have been the first MP location on the Hemlock branch, east leg of the wye right where it met the mainline, half a mile east of the depot:

Image

and the RS must stand for Rochester Southern.
The MP location, and the RS, both match what's on the ground at Rochester Junction.

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Re: LV milepost help

Postby TB Diamond » Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:02 am

FYI:

No such entity as the "Hemlock branch" except for possible unofficial local description.

The Lehigh Valley Railroad official name for the branch line from Rochester to Hemlock was the Rochester branch, period.

Believe there was an old thread about this some years ago.
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Re: LV milepost help

Postby scottychaos » Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:45 am

TB Diamond wrote:FYI:

No such entity as the "Hemlock branch" except for possible unofficial local description.

The Lehigh Valley Railroad official name for the branch line from Rochester to Hemlock was the Rochester branch, period.



I'm not completely sure that is true..
Im not 100% certain, but it might have been true for one period in time, but not necessarily true for the entire timeline the branch existed..

there are many 1900 to 1920 references that say "Rochester and Hemlock Branch"
and also many references from that same time period that do say "Hemlock branch"..although those could be the local "unofficial" designation.
But it looks possible that the LV did at one time say "Rochester and Hemlock Branch", and then perhaps latrer it was changed to "Rochester branch"

Some reading here:

http://tinyurl.com/y8p496z9

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Re: LV milepost help

Postby TB Diamond » Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:51 pm

Curious if the references mentioned received their information from the Lehigh Valley Railroad?

Have never seen the Rochester branch officially referenced as the Rochester and Hemlock branch.

There was at least one USGS topo that showed the Rochester branch as the Hemlock branch. Cartographer mistake or did they receive the info from the LVRR?

The earliest ETT in my files is No. 8 dated September 30, 1934. This includes a passenger time table for the Rochester branch.

If a LVRR ETT prior to that shows the Rochester and Hemlock branch then I will stand corrected.
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Re: LV milepost help

Postby CPSmith » Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:05 am

For what it's worth, here is a scan from my July 1905 Empire State Rail Road Guide. Not official RR stuff, of course, but the info had to come from somewhere.
Attachments
Rochester_Branch_2.JPG
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Re: LV milepost help

Postby KevinD » Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:29 pm

My LV track chart names both branches separately. The chart is undated but looks late era to me.

image003.jpg


The same chart also shows the missing main track through Manchester yard

image001.jpg


and also the trimmed back double track to P&L crossover with the missing 397.3 interlocking close to the infamous Gulf Rd derailment location

image007.jpg
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Re: LV milepost help

Postby nydepot » Sat Nov 18, 2017 8:31 am

Good info. Growing up in Livonia NY, I'd always heard of it called the Hemlock Branch. Thanks for posting.
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Re: LV milepost help

Postby BR&P » Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:03 am

Well, that establishes that at least some point LV did call it the Hemlock Branch.

Very interesting to see on the bottom of those maps (and unrelated to this thread) the extent of the quarry trackage between MP 397 and 398. The quarry had its own engines and did its own switching but the detail shown here makes you wonder why LV gets so specific?
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Re: LV milepost help

Postby TB Diamond » Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:26 pm

Was recently informed that a 1901 edition of the Official Guide has a listing for the Rochester and Hemlock branch. This description apparently lasted until about 1905 (see reference above).

Yes, the Rochester branch compass south (ETT direction east) of Rochester Jct. was commonly referred to by locals as the Hemlock branch. Even heard the remainder of the branch unofficialy referred to as the Lima branch after the Rochester branch, Lima-Hemlock, 9.6 miles, was abandoned in 1968.

ConRail referred to the branch, Rochester Jct.-Lima as the Rochester Branch South (reference a 1981 ConRail track chart).

The track charts posted above had to have been drawn after 1972 according to the CTC installations depicted. Have no explanation therefore as to why the Rochester branch compass south of Rochester Jct. was shown as the Hemlock branch as by that time Lima-Hemlock had been abandoned.
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Re: LV milepost help

Postby scottychaos » Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:48 am

TB Diamond wrote:
The track charts posted above had to have been drawn after 1972 according to the CTC installations depicted. Have no explanation therefore as to why the Rochester branch compass south of Rochester Jct. was shown as the Hemlock branch as by that time Lima-Hemlock had been abandoned.


Probably simply because of inertia. Its likey the branch had been called "The Hemlock Branch" for a long time, probably many decades, and in 1972 no one had any reason to give it a different name, even after Lima-Hemlock had been abandoned.

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