Single track Chicago Line?

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Re: Single track Chicago Line?

Postby scottychaos » Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:20 am

DogBert wrote:Honestly don't think we're going to see autonomous trucks anytime in our lifetime, at least in the northeast. Also doubt trucking companies would want to reduce rates a penny even with reduced labor.


They are already here..
I predict widespread use within 10 to 20 years..
Dont choose truck driver as a new career..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIlCR4eG8_o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-AyR91UI2s

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Re: Single track Chicago Line?

Postby Roscoe P. Coaltrain » Mon Aug 14, 2017 11:08 am

For the non-believers, have you received your memo now?
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Re: Single track Chicago Line?

Postby Roscoe P. Coaltrain » Mon Aug 14, 2017 11:16 am

scottychaos wrote:I predict widespread use within 10 to 20 years..
Dont choose truck driver as a new career..




Yes, but what is that now-unemployed army of truck drivers (and rail TY&E soon to be PTC'ed out of a job in competitive response) going to do once they are not needed? Wear MAGA hats and riot, making C'ville look like a kiddy sandbox fight? Many of them became truck drivers when their previous career didn't need them anymore. That civil unrest outcome will certainly pop our hugely bubbled stock market.
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Re: Single track Chicago Line?

Postby Matt Langworthy » Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:32 pm

Train60 wrote:This recent article by Fred Frailey provides some interesting insight in to this discussion.
http://cs.trains.com/trn/b/fred-frailey/archive/2017/08/13/single-track-the-water-level-route.aspx


I found the article interesting. Frailey admits single tracking portions of the Water Level Route could lead to substantial delays, according to a simulation he ran. Interestingly enough, he kept the West Shore Bypass in place for his simulation, along with a double track segment through downtown Rochester. ;)

With that being said, I'd be curious about where Frailey got the study that CSX supposedly conducted. I'd also like to know when it was conducted. I know those questions would be difficult to answer. If the source is legitimate, Frailey probably wants to protect him/her. It's the same reason I've not named my sources in other debates on this forum. No reasonable person wants to see a good RR employee lose their job. On the other hand, the absence of a document or a firsthand witness to support the existence of the study does throw shade on its legitimacy.

Frailey is right about EHH being a poor CEO, but EHH is also not well. Between the jaundice, oxygen and inability to travel, EHH's remaining time on this planet is probably short. Single tracking the Water Level Route could prove expensive for CSX down the road if EHH's successor has a better vision for CSX. Hey, I've heard Wick Moorman will be available soon, so you never know...
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Re: Single track Chicago Line?

Postby Roscoe P. Coaltrain » Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:45 pm

Fred has the inside sources, don't you worry.

Fred ran this on Train Dispatcher 3, a 1992 computer game, merely to satisfy his own curiosity on the potential. Any internal paper trail on the project is hardly being passed around on the outside.

Fred has always liked EHH, especially now that Fred sold his dumpy house in the DC burbs of MacLean VA for $1.4 million (which the buyer-developer promptly bulldozed, built a 500K McMansion on the property, and priced it at $2.2 million) and now Fred moved to Colorado to become one of the imported yuppies destroying the native Colorado landscape around Minturn/Aspen with condos and Range Rovers, and he now lives off investment income himself, and Fred is genuinely concerned EHH may have met his match here at CSX.
Last edited by Roscoe P. Coaltrain on Mon Aug 14, 2017 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Single track Chicago Line?

Postby nydepot » Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:40 pm

Article also ends with:

Latest word is that the single-tracking idea has been put on hold. Maybe that’s just as well.—Fred W. Frailey
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Re: Single track Chicago Line?

Postby BR&P » Mon Aug 14, 2017 2:04 pm

FWIW, a reliable source reports that Saturday a 210 car westbound stalled on Byron Hill. Four hours later an eastbound dropped his train and pushed the westbound up the hill, then went back to his own train and proceeded east with a 2-hour delay. Westbound crew tied down and taxied to Buffalo.

I fail to understand how such things are allowed to happen. That hill has been there forever, and the railroad has been there on it for not TOO much less than 200 years. If you're going to hang everything but the yard office on the drawbar, does it really seem too hard to make sure there are enough horses up front to pull it? Who has to answer for that, and who do they have to answer TO? Or doesn't anybody care?

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Re: Single track Chicago Line?

Postby KevinD » Mon Aug 14, 2017 2:18 pm

Just remember, a plan put on hold is not the same as a plan terminated as unworkable. He possibly needs to run more business off first. Until the man is found accidentally hung by his own oxygen tubes, never count him out.
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Re: Single track Chicago Line?

Postby Matt Langworthy » Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:07 pm

BR&P wrote:FWIW, a reliable source reports that Saturday a 210 car westbound stalled on Byron Hill. Four hours later an eastbound dropped his train and pushed the westbound up the hill, then went back to his own train and proceeded east with a 2-hour delay. Westbound crew tied down and taxied to Buffalo.

I fail to understand how such things are allowed to happen. That hill has been there forever, and the railroad has been there on it for not TOO much less than 200 years. If you're going to hang everything but the yard office on the drawbar, does it really seem too hard to make sure there are enough horses up front to pull it? Who has to answer for that, and who do they have to answer TO? Or doesn't anybody care?

It's a hell of a way to run a railroad! Image


The train you reference was probably Q003, which also had the consist of Q019 added to the mix. It was over 200 cars long, and I didn't see another train before leaving Chili Jct about 80 minutes later. Oh BTW, a similar incident happened yesterday, and CSX had to send a solo widecab long hood forward from Buffalo to Batavia to bail out that train. Ain't life grand?
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Re: Single track Chicago Line?

Postby BR&P » Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:43 pm

Way back in prehistoric times, the Rochester Yardmaster's phone might ring in late afternoon. It would be the engine house, asking what sort of train the Second Belt would have going to Kodak. Depending on the answer, the diesel man knew whether to provide one unit, or two. Similar practice was followed with other trains, and I'm sure Buffalo, Dewitt, Selkirk and other places did likewise. Apparently that approach has gone the way of the caboose.

The guy who was Supervisor of Yard Procedures, and later a Trainmaster there, occasionally pontificated "Coordination and cooperation make for a better team." We ragged on him for the cheerleading, but he wasn't all wrong.
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Re: Single track Chicago Line?

Postby RMB357 » Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:14 pm

The one problem is all the supervisors with experience were fired and he has a bunch of ex CN people running things. EHH doesn't believe in road Foreman either so you more than likely have a lot of inexperienced trainmasters who are playing taxi cab drivers for the crews. Too much change, way too fast for a complex railroad like CSX
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Re: Single track Chicago Line?

Postby tree68 » Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:05 am

RMB357 wrote: Too much change, way too fast for a complex railroad like CSX

Who cares, as long as I make money on it... [/sarcasm]
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Re: Single track Chicago Line?

Postby Otto Vondrak » Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:42 pm

Roscoe P. Coaltrain wrote:For the non-believers, have you received your memo now?


Yawwwwwn. Discussing something that has not proven to exist for the sake of beating up on CSX and EHH is boring.

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Re: Single track Chicago Line?

Postby Noel Weaver » Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:31 pm

I ran some big trains WB over South Byron and believe me two six motor units will handle just about any train that the railroad chooses to run over that grade, not a track speed but they will not stall unless they encounter really bad rail conditions (probably worse than I ever did) or they lose a unit and I made it one night with just one old GE that lugged its heart out.
I left Selkirk one night on SEEL way back when with three 1900's (B-23-7's), they took one away from us in Selkirk when it had a problem so we went with two of them. Conductor made a fuss with the chief but we went and we made the hill with just two small units. I don't know what kind of shape the traction motors were in after that ordeal but they did the job that they were created for. Those old GE's were good at lugging.
Any time you convert a main line from two tracks to single track you will get hit with a lot more delays from unexpected problems such as signal failures, hot box detector hits, engne problems, undersired brake action (train in emergency) or other things that will make the difference between moving trains and stopped trains. Maybe they should think of that one too.
I still have many doubts that they will pull out any trackage on this most important route.
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Re: Single track Chicago Line?

Postby BR&P » Tue Aug 15, 2017 9:35 pm

Otto Vondrak wrote:
Yawwwwwn. Discussing something that has not proven to exist for the sake of beating up on CSX and EHH is boring.

-otto-


In that case, we will cheerfully refund your click, and you may spend it on some other forum to discuss religion, politics, or the existence of the Loch Ness Monster! :wink:

I realize TRAINS is the "other guys" for you, but I'd say Frailey's discussion indicates it's more than an internet hoax. It likely won't succeed, may or may not be attempted, but I firmly believe it's at least been discussed, considered and evaluated in various levels of CSX.
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