Last steam in Rochester?

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Re: Last steam in Rochester?

Postby Otto Vondrak » Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:47 am

BR&P wrote:
scottychaos wrote:Personally I would not count Avon, Canandaigua or Sodus Point as being part of the Rochester Area..all three are too far out. (none of them are even in Monroe County)


I guess it depends on where you choose to draw the line. The ad for the event says "Steam returns to Rochester" so they're including Industry as part of Rochester. But Avon is ballpark 6 miles farther and that does not count. I suppose "Steam Returns to Monroe County" would leave no doubt.

And I might also note that the good folks at the museum have also missed both the Golden Spike Centennial train which passed through in 1969, and the American Freedom Train which spent several days at the Regional Market in Henrietta in about 1976 give or take - both powered by steam (former NKP and RDG, respectively).

An interesting event none the less and I hope it works well for them.

EDIT - American Freedom Train shows its Rochester visit as May 7 - May 12, 1975. It arrived from Worcester MA and departed for Cleveland OH pulled by former RDG 2101.


Being quite aware of the '69 and '75 visits of steam, neither were a train the public could ride, which is where I personally make the distinction. I feel pretty comfortable with the ad copy as written. :-) If anyone finds fault with the advertising or the event, I take full responsibility.

-otto vondrak
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Re: Last steam in Rochester?

Postby Otto Vondrak » Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:58 am

Noel Weaver wrote:I think the last regular service steam in Rochester was probably on the B & O moat likely sometime in 1956. The other railroads in this area except for the PRR were fully diesel operated by this time and I think the B & O outlasted the PRR.
Noel Weaver


Last B&O passenger service was September 29, 1953, steam powered to the end.

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Re: Last steam in Rochester?

Postby BR&P » Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:26 am

Not sure we can let you off the hook THAT easy, Otto! :wink: The ad says "Ride behind the first steam engine to operate in our area since 1954!" So while the public could not ride those trips, at least two steam engines did in fact operate in our area. (2 engines, 3 times, since the NKP engine operated live deadheading eastbound a few days before the actual Golden Spike train went west.)

The visit of the Viscose engine is a great event, but did you really think you could escape my yanking your chain for your hyperbole? Image
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Re: Last steam in Rochester?

Postby nydepot » Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:51 am

OK, so if we are going with Rochester area, the last NYC steam was Despatch Shops #7 in 1/55. Last B&O was summer 1955 for the steamer coming in from Perry.

Outside Rochester you've still got the PRR Sodus line into 1956 and General Crushed Stone in Le Roy also in 1956. Also, the LA&L in Avon hauling passengers with an occasional freight into the 1970s.

This wasn't to pick on the museum, it was to put some dates to things I've never paid attention to before.
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Re: Last steam in Rochester?

Postby Otto Vondrak » Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:05 pm

BR&P wrote:The ad says "Ride behind the first steam engine to operate in our area since 1954!" So while the public could not ride those trips, at least two steam engines did in fact operate in our area. (2 engines, 3 times, since the NKP engine operated live deadheading eastbound a few days before the actual Golden Spike train went west.) The visit of the Viscose engine is a great event, but did you really think you could escape my yanking your chain for your hyperbole? Image


I get your point, I could add more words to the copy something like, "Ride behind the first steam passenger train to operate in our area since 1954..." I'm not sure the public will make that distinction enough to make it worth it, though. Based on the operation of the DSI switcher and the B&O Perry switcher, I might consider changing the date from 1954 to 1955 if it sounds more accurate. What do you think?

nydepot wrote:This wasn't to pick on the museum, it was to put some dates to things I've never paid attention to before.


I agree, this is all good info and discussion. I'm the guy publishing the info, so I'm taking responsibility.

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Re: Last steam in Rochester?

Postby Old & Weary » Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:46 pm

Its a lot closer than Sodus Point!
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Re: Last steam in Rochester?

Postby BR&P » Thu Jul 20, 2017 3:11 pm

Otto Vondrak wrote:
I get your point, I could add more words to the copy something like, "Ride behind the first steam passenger train to operate in our area since 1954..." I'm not sure the public will make that distinction enough to make it worth it, though. Based on the operation of the DSI switcher and the B&O Perry switcher, I might consider changing the date from 1954 to 1955 if it sounds more accurate. What do you think?
-otto-


Well, now that I had fun giving you a ration of abuse, it's whatever is easiest for you. I'm not going back through all the posts but I THINK we decided the last steam passenger train was B&O in 1953? So you could word it that way and date it back even farther. Or you could say last steam engine to operate in local service in Monroe County since 1955.

I agree, John Q. Public will never know the difference. An argument COULD be made to preserve historical accuracy, so somebody 35 years from now does not look at their brochure or flyer and use the 1954 date instead of '53 or '55. I have every confidence that you will arrive at a proper decision, and I will spread the word to friends and neighbors to consider going on one of the trips. Do you or will you have actual printed brochures? If so, get some to me and I'll pass them out.
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Re: Last steam in Rochester?

Postby lvrr325 » Fri Jul 21, 2017 1:46 pm

Big print:

"First Steam in Rochester since the 1950s*"


Fine print at bottom:

"* Excursions not included"
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Re: Last steam in Rochester?

Postby BR&P » Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:33 pm

lvrr325 wrote:Big print:

"First Steam in Rochester since the 1950s*"


Fine print at bottom:

"* Excursions not included"


ImageImage

ALWAYS read the fine print!
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Re: Last steam in Rochester?

Postby Matt Langworthy » Sun Jul 23, 2017 6:45 pm

Otto Vondrak wrote:
BR&P wrote:I guess they don't know that LA&L used to operate steam into Avon, just a few miles away from them, until....late 1970's? OOOPS! :P


If you really consider Avon, located in Livingston County, to be "Rochester," then you have a very broad and loose interpretation of geography. :-)

-otto-


BR&P isn't on Facebook (yet), but if he was... he'd see that photos from Avon are posted on the the Rochester Area Railfans page. ;)
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Re: Last steam in Rochester?

Postby jr » Thu Jul 27, 2017 7:23 pm

An interesting discussion. Not trying to poke at anybody, but purely for the sake of historical accuracy, are some clarifications / additions to earlier posts:

Kodak Park RR kept one fireless loco till 1955. However, I don't know how much that it actually ran, by that date.
Gleason Works had one fireless loco (perhaps after '55 ?)
One of the above might take the crown for the last steam loco in the City, in "regular" service.

No direct bearing on this discussion, but Erie RR did not dieselize until 1954. Most of its final steam operations were for the commuter lines in Jersey, but I think they still had individual K5 class locos at division points for passenger protect power, into 1952.

The Golden Spike Centennial train was indeed open to the public for passenger carriage. At least one current RGVRRM member rode it out west.

JR
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Re: Last steam in Rochester?

Postby s4ny » Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:28 pm

Federal Reserve info re Rochester Metro Area

https://www.newyorkfed.org/data-and-sta ... ester.html

NKP 765 ran through Dalton NY (Livingston County) in Aug 2015.
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Re: Last steam in Rochester?

Postby BR&P » Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:27 pm

Might be the next county over, but not even close. Image
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Re: Last steam in Rochester?

Postby mkirsch » Thu Aug 24, 2017 2:36 pm

Yeah, 765 ran the Southern Tier line which is 50 miles south of Rochester at its nearest.

May as well say the Arcade and Attica counts as steam in Rochester.
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Re: Last steam in Rochester?

Postby nydepot » Thu Aug 24, 2017 6:05 pm

The person is just pointing out for census purposes, Livingston County is in the Rochester Metro area. I think the post was a bit tongue in cheek.
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