Last steam in Rochester?

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Re: Last steam in Rochester?

Postby pumpers » Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:13 pm

BR&P wrote:BTW, without knowing all the factors involved, it would seem the easiest way would have been to take the EL, LA&L, and G&W stuff to Genesee Junction, and have the B&O take it to P&L. G&W office car reaches home rails, and EL could have taken the LA&L outfit east to Avon. Why that was not done, I guess we will never know.

I always wondered, why is it called "P&L" junction.
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Re: Last steam in Rochester?

Postby TB Diamond » Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:31 pm

P&L Jct. = Pittsburgh and Lehigh Junction.

Pittsburgh for the Buffalo, Rochester & Pittsburgh Railway, Lehigh for the Lehigh Valley Railroad.

Interesting location back in the day and if one knows where to look vestiges of the junction may still be found in the weeds, brush and trees.
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Re: Last steam in Rochester?

Postby lvrr325 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:42 pm

A piece of the LV main remains there as storage tracks.
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Re: Last steam in Rochester?

Postby TB Diamond » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:18 pm

Yes, the last but very short segment of the old original LVRR double track remaining in NYS. After CTC P&L Jct.-Wheatland Int. went into effect (July 7, 1970) it became single track and passing siding, however.
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Re: Last steam in Rochester?

Postby lvrr325 » Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:25 pm

Just for what it's worth, is it possible the NKP 765 passed through Rochester when it was running excursions in the late 1980s? It would probably have been a ferry move.

I seem to recall a trip advertised running to Corning via Lyons and Geneva but internet searches are coming up blank, all I get are trips on the Southern Tier alone or trips to Niagara Falls and back. Maybe it was advertised but not run, too. I don't recall if the trip was to begin in Syracuse, Buffalo, or somewhere else.
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Re: Last steam in Rochester?

Postby Matt Langworthy » Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:41 pm

The 1985 excursion for NKP #765 was from Buffalo to Corning and return. Amtrak has run an excursion into Geneva since then, but it was diesel powered.
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Re: Last steam in Rochester?

Postby MP366 » Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:39 pm

lvrr325....maybe the excursions you’re thinking of ran with Andy Mueller’s (sp? Owner of the RBM&N, IIRC)PRR painted E units, east from Buffalo to Lyons, south to Corning, then west to Buffalo.
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Re: Last steam in Rochester?

Postby sd80mac » Tue Jan 23, 2018 8:11 am

BR&P wrote:I don't have the exact date - 1959? 1962? - but EL cut that segment a few years before LA&L was formed.



BRP and Matt - thanks.

So the erie track (along RT 5) connected at Avon was still in use until CR took over? That's one long round around trip to Rochester than that line Erie cut off.. Unless avon and Rochester get a lot of cars from Buffalo and west.
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Re: Last steam in Rochester?

Postby BR&P » Tue Jan 23, 2018 8:36 am

Ken - yes, until Conrail came along the EL traffic from Rochester came east out of Buffalo, through Leroy, Avon, then north up to Rochester.
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Re: Last steam in Rochester?

Postby Barnard Crossing » Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:58 pm

lvrr325 wrote:Just for what it's worth, is it possible the NKP 765 passed through Rochester when it was running excursions in the late 1980s? It would probably have been a ferry move.

I seem to recall a trip advertised running to Corning via Lyons and Geneva but internet searches are coming up blank, all I get are trips on the Southern Tier alone or trips to Niagara Falls and back. Maybe it was advertised but not run, too. I don't recall if the trip was to begin in Syracuse, Buffalo, or somewhere else.


Just an FYI and it might make things regarding the NKP 765 and its movements easier to understand:

I volunteer for the group which takes care of and runs that great Berkshire. I believe there's another Berkshire up in Michigan, in Pere Marquette livery. The historical group has an agreement with Norfolk Southern. I don't think we have agreements with other railroads. It costs many thousands of dollars to lease track time on Norfolk Southern's tracks every year. We can do revenue runs, pulling NS stock, and do so once or twice a year. So often times the 765 will pull freight and passenger, with the historical group able to offset some of the leasing costs for track time on NS tracks.

It took a huge effort to run on the commuter line into Chicago last Father's Day weekend, logistically and whatnot.

If I were to hazard a guess, FWRHS, the group that owns the 765, would have to negotiate track time with CSX and pay large fees for track time, same as what we do with Norfolk Southern.

I wish 765 could make a run on the old Water Level Route, but when it goes into NY it's on the old Erie and Nickle Plate Road right of ways.
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Re: Last steam in Rochester?

Postby BR&P » Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:15 pm

I'm hearing the PRR E units may soon be unable to run mainline trips account lack of PTC and the prohibitive expense to install it on the units. I could see a similar issue arising with steam locomotives as well. Apparently there are no exceptions or loopholes for units that only run occasional excursions, they will have to comply as well.
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Re: Last steam in Rochester?

Postby Ironhorse27 » Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:50 pm

Barnard Crossing wrote:
lvrr325 wrote:Just for what it's worth, is it possible the NKP 765 passed through Rochester when it was running excursions in the late 1980s? It would probably have been a ferry move.

I seem to recall a trip advertised running to Corning via Lyons and Geneva but internet searches are coming up blank, all I get are trips on the Southern Tier alone or trips to Niagara Falls and back. Maybe it was advertised but not run, too. I don't recall if the trip was to begin in Syracuse, Buffalo, or somewhere else.


Just an FYI and it might make things regarding the NKP 765 and its movements easier to understand:

I volunteer for the group which takes care of and runs that great Berkshire. I believe there's another Berkshire up in Michigan, in Pere Marquette livery. The historical group has an agreement with Norfolk Southern. I don't think we have agreements with other railroads. It costs many thousands of dollars to lease track time on Norfolk Southern's tracks every year. We can do revenue runs, pulling NS stock, and do so once or twice a year. So often times the 765 will pull freight and passenger, with the historical group able to offset some of the leasing costs for track time on NS tracks.

It took a huge effort to run on the commuter line into Chicago last Father's Day weekend, logistically and whatnot.

If I were to hazard a guess, FWRHS, the group that owns the 765, would have to negotiate track time with CSX and pay large fees for track time, same as what we do with Norfolk Southern.

I wish 765 could make a run on the old Water Level Route, but when it goes into NY it's on the old Erie and Nickle Plate Road right of ways.


CSX is not a steam friendly road currently, but things can change with the right circumstances. The 765 has an excellent track record and has run on CSX before (New River trains). Never say never, and the door might creep open slowly to at least allow ferry moves. WE'll just have to wait and see how things shake out.
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