old RR bridge over I-390 by Rochester airport

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Re: old RR bridge over I-390 by Rochester airport

Postby pumpers » Thu Jul 06, 2017 11:45 am

https://www.historicaerials.com has it all. I can't see how to send a link to the specific view like in Google maps, but go to the main web site and then the 1951 photo - the B&O went over Chili Ave.
The 1936 topo shows the PRR still crossing Chili Ave (with presumably a B&O spur going south of CHili Ave along the canal) but by 1946 the PRR main was cut at CHili Ave (presumably due to the new bridge and Chili ave possible lowering.) The topo doesn't show the new PRR connection to the B&O(?) spur to get up on the B&O bridge, but it is clear on the 1951 photo.
THere must have been quite a set of diamonds (or crossovers) to get the PRR across what looks like 3 or 4 B&O tracks on the topo.

Regarding the PRR line and I-390, the 1994 photo shows the airport had expanded and cut the PRR, but the abandoned bridge over 390 was still there at the time.
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Re: old RR bridge over I-390 by Rochester airport

Postby nydepot » Thu Jul 06, 2017 11:48 am

Tower? No tower.

sd80mac wrote:
BR&P wrote:If I am seeing it right, the second link Kevin provides seems to show Chili Ave going OVER the PRR.



And the tower is on Chili Ave???
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Re: old RR bridge over I-390 by Rochester airport

Postby nydepot » Thu Jul 06, 2017 11:50 am

There was not a specific thing to lower Chili Ave or make a new B&O bridge. It was grade crossing elimination fever. Move the PRR to the B&O which would create the need for a revised B&O bridge.
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Re: old RR bridge over I-390 by Rochester airport

Postby sd80mac » Sun Jul 09, 2017 9:54 am

Speaking of devil... someone posted this on Facebook and the first picture of that is......

http://www.rwrightrr.com/photos/pbu.asp ... F19%2F2014
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Re: old RR bridge over I-390 by Rochester airport

Postby sd80mac » Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:30 am

nydepot wrote:Tower? No tower.

sd80mac wrote:And the tower is on Chili Ave???


Please see the photo..

After looking at the map and zoomed in more than last time, I missed the bridge symbol. So the tower was ON the bridge... That's unusual placement for building to go on bridge. (if there was actual tower)

So no tower at all? Map's wrong?
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tower.jpg
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Re: old RR bridge over I-390 by Rochester airport

Postby sd80mac » Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:45 am

Looking at CPsmith's photo of 1941. It appears that the bridge is brand new. you can see neatly embankment and new sidewalk behind the bridge.

Also in 1935 map, it shows that bridge was wider and PRR had another track that connect B&O and serve a customer. Also bridge girders were parallel to B&O tracks In the 1941 photo, the tanks in background shows that it have no longer spur and the connection was removed. and East bridge girder was parallel to PRR track. And bridge width has been shorted to fit 3 tracks only.

Apparently the first bridge didn't really last very long.
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Re: old RR bridge over I-390 by Rochester airport

Postby BR&P » Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:37 am

I don't know whether there actually was a tower or not. But Ken is correct that the map SHOWS one being there.
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Re: old RR bridge over I-390 by Rochester airport

Postby CPSmith » Mon Jul 10, 2017 9:19 am

Here's another photo from the same series. This is on the B&O looking towards the Pennsy and Buell Rd. (don't squint for the 390 overpass - that won't show up for another 20-30 years or so).

If you zoom in and look between the switch stand and the whistle post (not sure what the other sign is), there appears to be a switchman's shanty, that I suppose to the unsuspecting could be construed as a "tower".
...
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PRR over the B&O - 2.jpg
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Re: old RR bridge over I-390 by Rochester airport

Postby sd80mac » Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:43 am

CPSmith wrote: there appears to be a switchman's shanty, that I suppose to the unsuspecting could be construed as a "tower".


not really this shanty is north of the bridge. It could be new replacement for the old tower, that WAS on the bridge.

If you squint just beyond the bridge, there's another building there.. 1935 map showed no structures at these 2 locations of buildings mentioned in last picture.
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Re: old RR bridge over I-390 by Rochester airport

Postby BR&P » Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:36 pm

If that photo is after the bridge work, there's no telling what was there before. Might have been a tower. Conversely, in railroad terms a "tower" was not always a 2-story building. Whether the map says that based on a physical look or on what they were told is anybody's guess. Interesting discussion either way.
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Re: old RR bridge over I-390 by Rochester airport

Postby sd80mac » Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:21 pm

BR&P wrote:If that photo is after the bridge work, there's no telling what was there before. Might have been a tower. Conversely, in railroad terms a "tower" was not always a 2-story building. Whether the map says that based on a physical look or on what they were told is anybody's guess. Interesting discussion either way.


Right. the "building" on the map seems that it was small building, compare to the most typical towers. But I am not familiar with B&O rr towers...
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Re: old RR bridge over I-390 by Rochester airport

Postby Benjamin Maggi » Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:25 am

Thank you everyone for the great pictures and insight into this bridge!
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Re: old RR bridge over I-390 by Rochester airport

Postby pumpers » Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:07 am

CPSmith wrote:Here's another photo from the same series. This is on the B&O looking towards the Pennsy and Buell Rd. (don't squint for the 390 overpass - that won't show up for another 20-30 years or so).

If you zoom in and look between the switch stand and the whistle post (not sure what the other sign is), there appears to be a switchman's shanty, that I suppose to the unsuspecting could be construed as a "tower".
...

The diverging tracks on the lower right of the photo are the beginning of the B&O wye - the switch stand is for that I believe. The PRR crossed at simple diamonds (as in the ~1981 photo which was linked to). I think the PRR comes in from the right on an angle just in front of the vertical tanks (for the Reading Coal & Iron Company in the 1935 map) up on a ROW which can be made out to be a bit higher than the B&O. I agree there is some kind of shanty on that side of the B&O, but after BOTH the switch stand and the whistle post on the right, and before the PRR. If you look at the earlier photo looking the other way, you can also make out the shanty, now on the left of the B&O and right of the PRR, just past the track crew.

The bridge in this perspective is AFTER the pole on the left with the position indicators hanging from it (I guess to indicate if the PRR or B&O has the right to proceed). And if you blow it up and look after that pole, you do see on the left what could be a small building/tower/shanty, agreeing with the "tower" on the map position.
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Re: old RR bridge over I-390 by Rochester airport

Postby sd80mac » Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:25 pm

pumpers wrote:The bridge in this perspective is AFTER the pole on the left with the position indicators hanging from it (I guess to indicate if the PRR or B&O has the right to proceed). And if you blow it up and look after that pole, you do see on the left what could be a small building/tower/shanty, agreeing with the "tower" on the map position.
JS



don't agree with you about the "tower" I indicated that 1935 map showing the bridge with tower ON the bridge is the first original bridge. And that has been either, taken down and build new one or had reconstruction that changed the bridge sometime between the photos that we are looking at and 1935 map.

ok.. 3 tracks... they're what? 16' across from edge of ballast to another edge of ballast, right? give or take few... times 3... that's 48' total.. so the width of that bridge is somewhere around 48-55.

1935 map showed that ROW, including the bridge width is at full ROW width, as 100' wide... that's totally different bridge we are looking at in picture from the 1935 map. the bride in 1935 map is 100' wide which is enough space for tower to sit on the bridge.
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Re: old RR bridge over I-390 by Rochester airport

Postby CPSmith » Fri Jul 14, 2017 1:26 pm

pumpers wrote:
CPSmith wrote:Here's another photo from the same series. This is on the B&O looking towards the Pennsy and Buell Rd. (don't squint for the 390 overpass - that won't show up for another 20-30 years or so).

If you zoom in and look between the switch stand and the whistle post (not sure what the other sign is), there appears to be a switchman's shanty, that I suppose to the unsuspecting could be construed as a "tower".
...

The diverging tracks on the lower right of the photo are the beginning of the B&O wye - the switch stand is for that I believe. The PRR crossed at simple diamonds (as in the ~1981 photo which was linked to). I think the PRR comes in from the right on an angle just in front of the vertical tanks (for the Reading Coal & Iron Company in the 1935 map) up on a ROW which can be made out to be a bit higher than the B&O. I agree there is some kind of shanty on that side of the B&O, but after BOTH the switch stand and the whistle post on the right, and before the PRR. If you look at the earlier photo looking the other way, you can also make out the shanty, now on the left of the B&O and right of the PRR, just past the track crew.

The bridge in this perspective is AFTER the pole on the left with the position indicators hanging from it (I guess to indicate if the PRR or B&O has the right to proceed). And if you blow it up and look after that pole, you do see on the left what could be a small building/tower/shanty, agreeing with the "tower" on the map position.
JS


Yes, you are correct as to the location of the shanty - I missed it. Having said that, I now have no idea regarding the tower in question.
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