2016-2017 Upstate New York Train Show Season

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Re: 2016-2017 Upstate New York Train Show Season

Postby lvrr325 » Sat Dec 17, 2016 5:22 pm

Paperwork came in the mail today for Eastwood, so we can mark that as confirmed.
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Re: 2016-2017 Upstate New York Train Show Season

Postby lvrr325 » Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:24 am

And the first show of 2017 is Sunday, TTCS's Utica Train Show at Union Station.
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Re: 2016-2017 Upstate New York Train Show Season

Postby lvrr325 » Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:25 pm

Utica show was pretty good, I had a very high number of sales although the dollar total was about average. Crowd seemed to come in waves. Lots of deals to be had, too, I missed one Walthers kit for $20 that goes on eBay pretty easy for $100 or more.

In addition to the displays and dealers the Adirondack RR opened up the B&M caboose and people could tour it. Sort of a little thumb your nose to the Children's Museum, I guess, as that and the rail equipment outside it appeared to be closed.


All quiet for a couple of weeks except for Springfield, then you get something just about every weekend until the end of April -
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Re: 2016-2017 Upstate New York Train Show Season

Postby SST » Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:54 pm

I've been looking for an excuse to take a ride on Amtrak so when I read the list of shows and saw UCA on it, I made reservations.

I arrived on the Lake Shore Limited only a few minutes late. The ride was nice and smooth. I finally caved to the gentle rocking of the cars and didn't know we came to a stop at SYR until the girl next to me gave me a little nudge. Good thing because I probably would have kept going past UCA.

I was happy to see how many passengers were on the train and how many got off in UCA. I was also surprised at how many people were at the show. It was difficult at times to walk around the tables. I had planned on having lunch at the station. I saw the mammoth sized portions they were serving. So I ordered a ham and cheese thinking it can't be that big. WHOA!!!!!! They put so many slices of ham on my sandwich it was probably 3 prepackaged lunch meat you buy at the store! I'm still not very hungry after several days.

I didn't buy anything at the show but I did see several lanterns going for nearly 100 dollars. Thank God I have mine. But it was fun. I planned on staying overnight and stayed at the Hotel Utica. It was ok. They say its haunted but nobody visited. Utica is like Buffalo at 5:01pm. Empty. But I love their architecture. I walked around for a long time looking at the various buildings.

The next day I hopped on the Maple Leaf and took a nice ride home. I stayed awake the whole trip especially at SYR because I wanted to see what I missed the day before. All in all a nice trip.
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Re: 2016-2017 Upstate New York Train Show Season

Postby lvrr325 » Sun Jan 29, 2017 10:43 am

Somehow it escaped me that there's a show today in Cheektowaga at the Leonard Post, 2450 Walden Ave. "Trainorama" has three rooms of dealers and runs from 9 till 3.

So that's a show in Buffalo today, a TTCS show in Depew next week, and then the WNYRHS show in Hamburg in three weeks.
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Re: 2016-2017 Upstate New York Train Show Season

Postby BR&P » Sun Jan 29, 2017 1:21 pm

At the Leonard Post, huh?
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Re: 2016-2017 Upstate New York Train Show Season

Postby lvrr325 » Mon Jan 30, 2017 7:47 am

The Pvt. Leonard Post, 2450 Walden Ave. That's what the flyer says.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =3&theater
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Re: 2016-2017 Upstate New York Train Show Season

Postby lvrr325 » Sat Feb 04, 2017 4:29 pm

Reminder for the TTCS Buffalo Snowball Train Show, Sunday Feb. 5th at the Polish Falcons on Columbia Ave. in Depew. 10-3.
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Re: 2016-2017 Upstate New York Train Show Season

Postby lvrr325 » Fri Feb 17, 2017 3:25 am

As mentioned in another thread the WNYRHS Winter Train and Toy Show is this weekend at the Fairgrounds in Hamburg. I will be there. It's too late to get Rapido RDCs in New York Central but I did get one to take to sell.
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Re: 2016-2017 Upstate New York Train Show Season

Postby lvrr325 » Mon Feb 20, 2017 3:50 am

Hamburg report -

I didnt catch the attendance (I'm sure they'll post it here or in the other thread) but I expect it will be on the lighter side, although it was busy most of both days and my sales were about average with all but last February's show. There were fewer dealers, too, but that's normal. As usual, it could have closed an hour earlier both days; they really need to keep an hourly tally of ticket sales and note how many sell in the last hour, and if they think it justifies going until 5 and 4 each day then show us. But typically I sell nothing after 2 each day, unless someone comes up right at closing with a last minute impulse buy.

In the fall they're no longer using the second hall, it will just be the main building. I also heard the garden grop may not return, freeing up a room for clinics or the like.



IMHO the clubs out there should get together, maybe form a Model Railroad Club Association and share some of their events, like NOME and the TTCS do for Lockport. There's 22 of them in 32 weeks if you count WNY as everything west of NYS Route 14, between TTCS, TCA, GSME, the WNYRHS, RIT and Greenberg, including some Southern Tier events - that doesn't include multiple toy shows, or events like the Erie, PA train show that draws from part of the same pool of dealers. While some of them are somewhat far apart, I've noticed a core group of guys at shows that generally have a set distance they're willing to drive who will go to all the shows within that distance and buy some things. The rest of the attendance is more casual, people just there to look. If they can go to an event every week or so, they're going to worry less about skipping some of them.

The pool of guys who will buy seems to be getting smaller; they're getting older, some can't get around as well as they used to. There aren't many kids to replace them, and of the younger ones I see a lot of people look stuff up on their phone now before deciding to buy something. Usually they don't.

The dealer pool is also getting smaller - several have just plain died in the last couple years, so it's more important to work to make sure events don't end up opposite someone else. When the guys who want to buy come in and see fewer dealers they're less likely to return. Dealers who need to make money are going to go where the biggest crowd is. It makes no sense for me to go to an event and barely break even if I can go to another and sell a lot more things.

If clubs shared events together they would reduce their expenses, increase the pool for staffing and promoting them, and likely increase the chances of doing little more than break even on them. Or if one is a loss, it's less of a loss. By comparing notes with each other for the events they promote maybe trends in what works and doesn't work will become more obvious.


Otherwise it's like carrion fighting over a carcass and when you stop making money with your shows, you stop having them, like the old Ithaca show. Sooner or later that works out for the last guy standing, he gets all the dealers and all the attendance, but it would make more sense to me for everybody to cooperate and stand together instead. Then everyone who attends can be happier.
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Re: 2016-2017 Upstate New York Train Show Season

Postby nydepot » Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:19 am

I attended and probably won't go again. I thought the HO scale was slim pickings and there were too much toys and dolls and games. I didn't mind the historical societies. I like train shows that are at least 90% or more trains.
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Re: 2016-2017 Upstate New York Train Show Season

Postby Matt Langworthy » Mon Feb 20, 2017 11:47 am

lvrr325 wrote:IMHO the clubs out there should get together, maybe form a Model Railroad Club Association and share some of their events, like NOME and the TTCS do for Lockport. There's 22 of them in 32 weeks if you count WNY as everything west of NYS Route 14, between TTCS, TCA, GSME, the WNYRHS, RIT and Greenberg, including some Southern Tier events - that doesn't include multiple toy shows, or events like the Erie, PA train show that draws from part of the same pool of dealers. While some of them are somewhat far apart, I've noticed a core group of guys at shows that generally have a set distance they're willing to drive who will go to all the shows within that distance and buy some things. The rest of the attendance is more casual, people just there to look. If they can go to an event every week or so, they're going to worry less about skipping some of them.


I don't consider the border of western NY to be State Route 14. Most of maps portray the border of western NY to be the county lines for Genesee, Orleans, Wyoming and Alleghany Counties. My Jimapco atlas includes the west side of Rochester (but not the east) and also extends as far as Hornell. The news media has made a push in recent years to include Rochester as part of western NY, but that was not so back in the day. But I digress....

I agree that the sheer volume of shows in upstate NY is too high. I go to two or three shows per year, primarily for RR books. I don't have the budget to go more frequently, and I suspect most other railfans have a similar financial constraint. It would be a good idea if the organizers collaborated. Among other things, the schedule you posted previously for 2017 shows three shows between mid-March and mid-April in greater Rochester alone. I just don't see how all three could be profitable, especially with the overall weather trend being warmer than normal... which is condusive to outdoor activities. Even though I was out in Buffalo Saturday evening, I made no effort to attend the show in Hamburg earlier in the day. The lure of good weather was just too strong. I'd rather be trackside than indoors when it's sunny and 60 degrees.

Also, you may want to check the schedule for the W.A.S.P.S. Model Train Show & Sale. April 10th is a Monday so a show would make no sense for that day. Furthermore, the schedule at http://www.fctt-hirailers.com/ indicates their Webster show will be March 18th and 19th, which is the same weekend as TTCS Rochester Shamrock Train Show, Eagle Club. Either we have 2 small shows competing head-to-head or the website hasn't been updated. Which weekend is it?
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Re: 2016-2017 Upstate New York Train Show Season

Postby MACTRAXX » Tue Feb 21, 2017 11:25 am

ML (and Everyone): Interesting thoughts concerning Upstate NY geography...

I never noticed NYS 14 being considered a dividing line between Central and Western New York
until you brought it up noting how it runs S/N Elmira-Watkins Glen-Geneva-Lyons-Sodus Point.

Was Rochester considered to be in west-central NY? Interesting that ROC was not considered
to be in WNY. It is not quite CNY the way that Syracuse is. To me that is the heart of CNY.

As a Downstater very interested in NYS geography I was always interested in all regions and all
62 counties of our state - and what was considered to be in each region.

For example I consider Interstate 84 between the PA and CT line to be the dividing route between
Downstate and Upstate New York along with Orange and the southern part of Dutchess Counties
in the mid-Hudson area to be what the boundary areas are.

Being a Long Island native I have noticed that many think that anything north of the Bronx is
"Upstate" but geographically this is actually not the case as I write here.

Everyone:

Getting back to the train show topic I will ask: Are there any train shows in the Downstate or the
NYC Area in NY-NJ or CT that are attended by many that come from regions Upstate?

An example: The JCRHS show in Clark,NJ 3/5/2017 http://www.jcrhs.org/rrshow.html

As most of us know there are "megashows" such as the ARHS show in central Massachusetts that
attracts literally thousands of visitors from all over the East Coast and even further...
http://www.railroadhobbyshow.com
What always surprised me was scheduling this show in midwinter in which weather would be a
major factor concerning show attendance but so far things have worked out and it is a welcome
event during a quieter time of year.

I noticed mention of shows outside of NYS in PA. Are there others in surrounding states that many
NY residents attend or is it close geographically places such as Erie or Scranton primarily?

Are there shows in Ontario that many NY residents attend? Does it pay for vendors from NYS to
go to buy/sell at Ontario shows or is the US/Canada border now become too much of a hassle?
Is it the same for Ontario residents attending NYS train shows?

I believe that there are many train shows in varied areas because there is enough people to
support them but as also mentioned many train enthusiasts tend to now be aging and unless
that there is younger members coming "on board" this could very well change over time...

Thoughts from MACTRAXX
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Re: 2016-2017 Upstate New York Train Show Season

Postby Matt Langworthy » Tue Feb 21, 2017 12:03 pm

MACTRAXX wrote:ML (and Everyone): Interesting thoughts concerning Upstate NY geography...

I never noticed NYS 14 being considered a dividing line between Central and Western New York
until you brought it up noting how it runs S/N Elmira-Watkins Glen-Geneva-Lyons-Sodus Point.

Was Rochester considered to be in west-central NY? Interesting that ROC was not considered
to be in WNY. It is not quite CNY the way that Syracuse is. To me that is the heart of CNY.

As a Downstater very interested in NYS geography I was always interested in all regions and all
62 counties of our state - and what was considered to be in each region.

For example I consider Interstate 84 between the PA and CT line to be the dividing route between
Downstate and Upstate New York along with Orange and the southern part of Dutchess Counties
in the mid-Hudson area to be what the boundary areas are.


I've had a fascination with geography almost as long as I've had a fascination with trains. I looked at maps to find out where EL and LV went through New York state, which quickly grew into looking where towns and cities are.

Your assessment of upstate vs downstate is spot-on, IMO.

Most map makers put Rochester in the Finger Lakes region. It's worth noting that the state of NY also does so for economic development reasons. The proponents of placing Rochester in western NY like to cite the tow cities are just a little over an hour apart. At least some of their opinion is based on sports fandom- the Bills and the Sabers have quite a following in Rochester.

With that being said, Rochester ties in better with the Finger Lakes. The city is closer to Canandaigua and Lakeville than Buffalo. It's also worth noting that the feds built I-390 to better connect Rochester with the western and southern Finger Lakes in the early '80s. If I'm asked where Rochester is located in NY, I say the Finger Lakes.


MACTRAXX wrote:Everyone:

Getting back to the train show topic I will ask: Are there any train shows in the Downstate or the
NYC Area in NY-NJ or CT that are attended by many that come from regions Upstate?

An example: The JCRHS show in Clark,NJ 3/5/2017 http://www.jcrhs.org/rrshow.html

As most of us know there are "megashows" such as the ARHS show in central Massachusetts that
attracts literally thousands of visitors from all over the East Coast and even further...
http://www.railroadhobbyshow.com
What always surprised me was scheduling this show in midwinter in which weather would be a
major factor concerning show attendance but so far things have worked out and it is a welcome
event during a quieter time of year.

I noticed mention of shows outside of NYS in PA. Are there others in surrounding states that many
NY residents attend or is it close geographically places such as Erie or Scranton primarily?

Are there shows in Ontario that many NY residents attend? Does it pay for vendors from NYS to
go to buy/sell at Ontario shows or is the US/Canada border now become too much of a hassle?
Is it the same for Ontario residents attending NYS train shows?

I believe that there are many train shows in varied areas because there is enough people to
support them but as also mentioned many train enthusiasts tend to now be aging and unless
that there is younger members coming "on board" this could very well change over time...

Thoughts from MACTRAXX


I've never gone to a show in downstate NY. For that I want, I can usually find it at a show. If the item in question can't be found locally, I'll just order it online or over the phone. There's no point spending the time and gasoline to travel to a show that's an hour or more away for common items such as Morning Sun Books. Those who collect rare model or tinplate trains may feel differently, of course.

Canada has never been on my radar for train shows, because customs will probably be a major hassle.

I agree with your assessment about the aging hobby demographic. Among others things, I've read a couple of articles about self-absorbed millenials being generally disinterested with the collectibles from previous generations. I suspect this will lead to fewer model/tinplate railroaders and thus have an impact on train shows, too.
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Re: 2016-2017 Upstate New York Train Show Season

Postby lvrr325 » Wed Feb 22, 2017 2:24 am

First of all, anything in blue on the first page was, as noted there, not confirmed at that time and could outright be a guess based on the weekend the show had previously been held; obviously I meant to mark the WASPS show as April 8-9.

I've since seen a flyer for it, may have it out in the car, but I forget the date. Checking their Facebook page shows they have indeed scheduled it for the 18th-19th of March, opposite the TTCS show at the Eagle Club.

Further updates: The Spring Albany Train Show at the Polish Community Center will be on March 11th - same day as the Greater Binghamton Regional Train Show.

One reason you have so many of these shows is they usually charge enough per table so they've at least broken even on table sales before anyone even comes in the door. But you can only charge so much for a one-day event.


I also said *IF* you use Route 14 as a divider - simply because it lets me include Horseheads and Palmyra in the show count. The majority of these shows are all such that they draw from the same dealer pool. It was not my interest or intent to start a geography debate. Someone based in Batavia has the option of going to at least 20 of those train shows within one hour's drive, give or take a few minutes.

I have seen Canadian dealers come to the US, but I've no idea how involved it is to go the other way, by the time you get the enhanced ID and go through the proctological exam at customs I don't want to do it. I do occasionally get a Canadian buyer and they either need the prices removed from items or I have to make them some kind of reciept.

The only downstate shows I've posted are Kingston and Fishkill, and since that's four hours drive for me I've never gone. I did a car show down in that area a couple times and it was barely worth going when it was free for me to go along with another guy. Greenberg did a show in Middletown at least once but hasn't been back in a while. Shows in the NYC metro area probably belong in a forum for that general area that includes stuff like the three northern New Jersey Greenberg shows.

As I noted, some Buffalo area dealers will go to Erie, PA. Binghamton area dealers do Scranton and sometimes the little Pittston show, I've done both but have taken a break. And I've recognized some dealers from the Albany area at Springfield. Then you have guys like M&H Hobbies, who goes all over, and Kim's Trains, who does all the major weekend events - they were at Hamburg and at Springfield too.

Based in Syracuse I generally limit my travel to about 150 miles one way, also depending on the size of the show and how hard it is to get there. Car shows I stay even closer, I don't even think I go 50 miles to any of them now.

If you break it up into four major markets - Albany, Syracuse, Binghamton/central Southern Tier, and Rochster-Buffalo, in Albany you have basically four shows - GTE, the two Polish Center shows, and South Glens Falls. In Syracuse you have the big show, Eastwood, on-again, off-again TCA shows, and Utica on the fringe, sort of it's own sub-market. Binghamton has it's two shows, little shows in Norwich and Greene, plus the Horseheads TCA isn't too far to go.

Then you get to Rochester. Two TTCS shows, two TCA shows (three if you count Palmyra), RIT, Greenberg, Wasps. Two Batavia shows, and Lockport. Then Buffalo - four TTCS shows, at least two TCA shows, two WNYRHS shows, and Buffalo Central Terminal's show. 20 shows within a 75 mile radius centered in Batavia, or 100 mile drive (just under that to go from Webster to Hamburg). No other market is this crowded. The guy on the Buffalo side that doesn't want to go to say WASPS in Rochster has Olean or Jamestown within 60 miles he may go to. The guy on the Rochester side may come to Syracuse in November.

Even if you start lumping, say, Binghamton and Utica into Syracuse you get to six shows. Albany is still just a handful of shows.

Another thing to consider is if say the TTCS dropped two of it's Buffalo area shows, the money it spent on them could be put into marketing for the other two shows. In addition to taking away that "I can just go to the next one option" you can run more ads for people to know it's even there.

And there has to be some kind of venue around Ithaca that one of these one day deals could go to. Even as the attendance dropped, the people who did come still spent money. I can compare - same attendance the last Ithaca show at The Field as the first revived Lockport show - but I sold twice as much at Ithaca and that was when I had exclusively used stuff.



As to the selection and variety at the WNYRHS show, I don't know where you were looking but there were plenty of things there of all vintages. I had the only Rapido DC RDC in the building - and I had to move it from the top rack to the table for anyone to even know it was there, people were just not looking at things. They just came out this week. But I can go through my book and look at what I sold the last six years now - and almost no one spends more than about $20, unless it's something being dumped for pennies on the dollar like the DCC Sound Baldwin AS616 I bought for all of $40 (factory sound ones retailed for $289.99). There's not much point to bringing a lot of great stuff, I'm just going to bring it back home. Heck on Saturday I bought another engine from a different seller that I know for a fact has had it at every one of those shows for about five years. So between those things guys bring stuff either to dump it off cheap, or they bring cheap junk they can sell to people for a buck or two.

No show is going to be perfect but I can almost always find bargains or rare things of some sort.
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