Saratoga & North Creek (S&NC) Discussion

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Re: Saratoga & North Creek (S&NC) Discussion

Postby CP4743 » Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:40 am

After seeing that article, things don't sound great, but the trail group used this situation to jump way ahead to a conclusion that is yet to happen.

Hopefully somebody figures out a way to save this great line.
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Re: Saratoga & North Creek (S&NC) Discussion

Postby BandA » Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:59 pm

Another article in today's paper, with a pretty picshur http://poststar.com/news/local/snow-train-continues-after-shutdown-remark/article_7c7ad8b6-db96-52f0-9ca1-b49725e08bb1.html
One of those issues is what rights SNCR has to cross Warren County-owned rails without a contract when accessing the company-owned line to the north.
So the county is assuming SNCR will either default on the contract or the county will cancel it, but the railroad still has freight to move (rock). So the county would have to appoint a new operator, presumably SNCR, otherwise the STB would get cranky?
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Re: Saratoga & North Creek (S&NC) Discussion

Postby johnpbarlow » Sun Apr 01, 2018 8:08 am

Does anyone have a volume projection for the Barton Mines stone that would be transported by S&NC? I rode a track car trip up the line to Tahawus in May 2014 and we passed the Barton Mines facility (shown in the attached Google Maps aerial photo) and it was not a large and/or happening place. I think there was a weedy siding there and IIRC, I had read at the time that S&NC had handled literally only one or two box cars out of that facility. So IMO, I'm guessing this will not be a major revenue source for S&NC.

It's the pile of tailings at Tahawus that have for years been dangled about as the big revenue enchilada. But there must be some reason why no one is apparently buying the tailings in large volumes. This article seems to suggest that rail transport to market is not the obstacle - they just need customers:

http://poststar.com/news/local/new-tahawus-mine-owner-sees-big-potential-for-property/article_5cc5cdc8-6035-5b81-a4d3-5540c3e77e2e.html
Attachments
Barton Mines.JPG
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Re: Saratoga & North Creek (S&NC) Discussion

Postby CP4743 » Mon Apr 02, 2018 11:50 am

At least 3 hi-cube boxcars have been loaded and shipped out of Barton since SNC opened the line north of North Creek. They ship some sort of garnet abrasive in super sacks. There is no siding there but one could be installed on the back side of the building. There is plenty of room. There is a very large amount of tailings in Tahawus, years of shipments worth. The biggest problem in the past has been getting a rate from CP that works for SNC. At least that is what has been reported in the media. CP ships a lot of stone from the Comstock area to metro NY. These cars are loaded on CP and handed off to CSX at Kenwood for haulage agreement traffic down the east side of Hudson River. So in theory, the economics are there to move stone from up in that area to metro NY.
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Re: Saratoga & North Creek (S&NC) Discussion

Postby brettj22 » Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:18 am

So even if the S&NC gives up on passenger service, apparently there is another operator out there that is interested... curious as to which one it is...

http://www.saratogian.com/general-news/20180402/scenic-saratoga-amp-north-creek-railway-future-in-doubt

He said Monday a separate rail operator has already contacted Warren County about the possibility of running tourist trains this summer. But it's doubtful, with so much legal uncertainty, if the county would agree to such plans.
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Re: Saratoga & North Creek (S&NC) Discussion

Postby brettj22 » Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:59 pm

Last chance to ride the S&NC now appears to be this Saturday... sad since it was a very picturesque line.

http://www.adirondackdailyenterprise.com/news/local-news/2018/04/amid-financial-losses-saratoga-north-creek-railway-plans-to-shut-down-this-weekend/

Saratoga & North Creek Railway notified its local partners that it plans to halt its operations after the Saturday “snow train” run between Saratoga Springs and Thurman.

The company will not operate tourist trains after that date but does not plan to lay off its employees at that point, according to Justin Gonyo, the railway’s general manager.
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Re: Saratoga & North Creek (S&NC) Discussion

Postby Mem-160 » Wed Apr 04, 2018 6:15 pm

Such a shame with so much potential - in what seems not so long ago.... 2011 showed so much promise! They even produced a couple of models for this line....
- Mark
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Re: Saratoga & North Creek (S&NC) Discussion

Postby Safetee » Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:17 am

An interesting piece about the potential for the derailization of the Adirondacks. https://www.adirondackexplorer.org/outt ... -rail-line
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Re: Saratoga & North Creek (S&NC) Discussion

Postby BandA » Sat Apr 07, 2018 11:03 pm

The article implies that that the SNC is going to shut down without moving the tank cars. I would assume they would move the tank cars and be paid for the job before shutting down. It is interesting that they have apparently not yet laid off their staff.

So what's going to happen when they want to move the tailings? When they try to remove the rails in yet another NY line & the mine and SNC object?

If the tourist train is done, perhaps they can lease some equipment to Milford-Bennington RR (in NH) for a Wilton train so that they can stave off PanAM's adverse filing.
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Re: Saratoga & North Creek (S&NC) Discussion

Postby Safetee » Fri May 04, 2018 9:24 pm

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Re: Saratoga & North Creek (S&NC) Discussion

Postby thebigham » Thu May 10, 2018 8:12 am

https://dailygazette.com/article/2018/0 ... ek-railway

End of the line for Saratoga & North Creek Railway
Parent company ends operations, begins removing equipment
John Cropley | May 9, 2018

NORTH CREEK — The tourist railroad traversing the scenic southeast Adirondacks has taken its last run.

Iowa Pacific Holdings has begun removing equipment from North Creek and expects to be gone within a month, a local official said. And on Tuesday it removed the last of the controversial tanker cars it had stockpiled on a siding near Tahawus, an environmental activist said.

The Saratoga & North Creek Railway’s website offered no clue about its status Wednesday. The cellphone belonging to the railroad’s general manager was continuously busy. The railroad’s toll-free number rang through to an off-site operator who said only that it was no longer operating passenger trains.

Iowa Pacific began operating its excursion train in 2011 after another company, Upper Hudson Scenic Railroad Co., lost its contract to operate on tracks owned by Warren County...
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Re: Saratoga & North Creek (S&NC) Discussion

Postby J.D. Lang » Thu May 10, 2018 9:03 am

The trail advocates must be jumping for joy. :( Sorry to see this happen but I guess it was inevitable given Iowa Pacific's tenuous business condition. To bad.
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Re: Saratoga & North Creek (S&NC) Discussion

Postby BandA » Fri May 11, 2018 2:58 am

The mine has a right to be serviced...assume CP can't run over the IP-owned trackage.
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Re: Saratoga & North Creek (S&NC) Discussion

Postby Jeff Smith » Fri May 11, 2018 10:18 am

More on the storage and adverse abandonment application: TimesUnion.com

Fair-use quote:

Regulators' decision on rail line's control awaits DEC application

Federal regulators are waiting for state officials to complete paperwork in a dispute involving control of an Adirondack Park rail line that became a storage yard for surplus oil tank cars.

In December, the state Department of Environmental Conservation filed a complaint with the federal Surface Transportation Board seeking to wrest control of the 30-mile rail line, which runs from Tahawus in the Adirondack High Peaks to North Creek in Warren County from Chicago-based Iowa Pacific, the line's owner.

The rail line drew the ire of state and local officials after the railroad began storing surplus oil tanker cars, many covered in graffiti, along the line.

Iowa Pacific on Tuesday removed the last of those cars, the Rome Sentinel reported. The STB, meanwhile, said this week that the DEC hasn't yet filed an adverse abandonment application.
...
Next stop, Willoughby
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Re: Saratoga & North Creek (S&NC) Discussion

Postby Old Muley » Tue May 15, 2018 9:02 am

I was driving through North Creek yesterday and stopped at the station. There are 3 boxcars parked at the station. I asked a couple of the workers what the boxcars were for. Their response "We're packing up everything and leaving". They said everything is being pulled out and heading to other IP owned railroads. They are giving up on moving freight. They believed that the 2 E units are heading to somewhere in Pennsylvania.

There was a block of tank cars parked on the main just north of the station, I believe these are the last on the property.

The 2 BL-2s, the 2 small ALCO switchers, and some passenger equipment were still parked near the station.

The trail folks must be salivating.

Sad.
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