Saratoga & North Creek (S&NC) Discussion

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Saratoga & North Creek (S&NC) Discussion

Postby SlackControl » Mon Jan 05, 2015 1:53 pm

I didn't see anyone start a 2015 thread yet, so I figured I would. Moderators, if you want to edit or move this to make an official header for the topic, by all means.

I started this as I have a couple of questions.

I saw towards the end of 2014, talks of revenue freight from the ore mines at the north end of the line were posted. Did anyone video any of this first revenue freight movement? Any pics or videos or the empties being brought up to the mine. Has there been any other revenue freight runs since that first run from the mine with the loaded gons? Any other freight in the near or far future for this line?

Any updates to the condition of the loco that caught fire a few weeks ago?

Thanks folks.
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Re: Saratoga & North Creek (S&NC) Discussion - 2015

Postby D.Carleton » Mon Jan 05, 2015 3:41 pm

The toasted traction motor on the 8524 was replaced and the unit was returned to service.
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Re: Saratoga & North Creek (S&NC) Discussion - 2015

Postby SlackControl » Mon Jan 05, 2015 11:23 pm

I'm also curious as to how the railroad is staffed, specifically relating to train crew personnel. Are engineers and conductors on the same roster, and can an employee on this roster work as an engineer today, and conductor the next? How many are on the roster? Are there full time, part time, and volunteer positions?

Also, what kind of signal system (if any) are used? Is it dark territory with hand thrown switches off the main track? Does the railroad use a rule book based on a standard rule book?

For both of the subjects I asked about, I'm just curious. I've been very fascinated by the SNCRR ever since I accidentally stumbled upon it while vacationing at Lake George a few years ago.
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Re: Saratoga & North Creek (S&NC) Discussion - 2015

Postby newpylong » Tue Jan 06, 2015 10:13 am

They use GCOR and it's dark - so Track Warrant Control.
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Re: Saratoga & North Creek (S&NC) Discussion - 2015

Postby griffs20soccer » Fri Jan 09, 2015 11:21 am

I've attached an article from September 2014 about corporate bureaucracy holding up the shipment of freight by rail from the north country. It outlined the issues and how it affects doing business in the area. It directly affects SNC's ability to grow their freight business. I found it an interesting read.

https://penneyvanderbilt.wordpress.com/tag/tahawus/

Any thoughts on the topic.
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Re: Saratoga & North Creek (S&NC) Discussion - 2015

Postby RussNelson » Fri Jan 09, 2015 11:15 pm

This video may be on youtube, too: https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=806106022765787
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Re: Saratoga & North Creek (S&NC) Discussion - 2015

Postby johnpbarlow » Fri Jan 16, 2015 5:33 am

NYSDOT has filed its letter of support with STB for NS acquisition of D&H South lines but with 2 conditions imposed on D&H which NYSDOT argues is a de facto applicant in this proposed transaction in addition to NS:

1.) NYSDOT believes that S&NC could be harmed by this transaction because S&NC can only interchange with D&H and D&H may be disinterested given their short haul participation. Proposed remedy is for D&H to grant S&NC direct interchange with NS at Saratoga. (Opinion: Given S&NC is currently trying to ship tailings to a Hudson River port near Albany or to CSX at Selkirk Yd, I'm not sure how direct interchange with NS really helps S&NC except to remove D&H from existing east/west/south routing options with NS that apparently aren't in use today).

2.) D&H must submit to STB its intent wrt disposition of trackage rights over NS to Allentown, Oak Island, Philadelphia, and DC, which will likely be unused following NS acquisition of D&H South.

I wonder how much of an issue item (1) will become in this proceeding.


http://www.stb.dot.gov/filings/all.nsf/ba7f93537688b8e5852573210004b318/59b3da63a8258e4e85257dce005af6c0/$FILE/237484.pdf
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Re: Saratoga & North Creek (S&NC) Discussion - 2015

Postby newpylong » Fri Jan 16, 2015 8:57 am

The tailings are their primary commodity, but not the only one - and the customer may want to unload them somewhere else at some point other than the Port of Albany - or CP might charge too much to make the operation viable. Having more than one interchange choice is always better.

They are also I am sure looking at future growth ie the old IP site.
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Re: Saratoga & North Creek (S&NC) Discussion - 2015

Postby griffs20soccer » Wed Jan 28, 2015 3:14 pm

Attached is an article about a grant the county received to study the feasibility of running SNC trains into Rensselaer station. The article contains information on the freight and passenger operations for the past year and plans for the new year.

The question of who the current contract for stone was answered. The costumer for the stone going into Massachusetts is MassDOT, to be used as ballast, and not another IPH railroad like was previously speculated.

http://www.denpubs.com/news/2015/jan/27 ... e/?page=1&
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Re: Saratoga & North Creek (S&NC) Discussion - 2015

Postby Tony Goodwin » Sun Feb 01, 2015 6:31 pm

Mass DOT owns the tracks that are leased by the Mass Coastal out of Taunton, and I think I am on solid ground when I state that these tailings are not going to CSX that is the only other railroad in Taunton. I therefore would still maintain that this shipment went from one IPH company to another IPH company and in no way "certifies" that shipping tailings from Tahawus is a viable business.
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Re: Saratoga & North Creek (S&NC) Discussion - 2015

Postby traingeek8223 » Mon Feb 02, 2015 10:35 am

I believe it was just clearly stated here that the purchaser of the stone is Mass DOT, not another IP company. No amount of "ARTA spin" can change that.
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Re: Saratoga & North Creek (S&NC) Discussion - 2015

Postby griffs20soccer » Mon Feb 02, 2015 1:01 pm

MassDOT is upgrading the tracks for their seasonal operation of the Cape Flyer. Tony MassDOT is the purchaser of the stone for their track upgrades and not another IPH railroad like you have speculated over and over. The tracks as they currently are OK for Mass Coastal's purposes, however, they need to be upgraded for the MBTA's uses, so MassDOT needs ballast. Argue all you want, MassDOT is writing the checks and you saying IPH over and over won't change that.
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Re: Saratoga & North Creek (S&NC) Discussion - 2015

Postby Otto Vondrak » Mon Feb 02, 2015 3:21 pm

I have seen photos that show the second BL-2 being painted into SNC colors, something I thought would never happen.


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Re: Saratoga & North Creek (S&NC) Discussion - 2015

Postby Otto Vondrak » Mon Feb 02, 2015 3:28 pm

Tony Goodwin wrote:I therefore would still maintain that this shipment went from one IPH company to another IPH company and in no way "certifies" that shipping tailings from Tahawus is a viable business.


Tony, this would be a false statement, unless you can provide evidence?
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Re: Saratoga & North Creek (S&NC) Discussion - 2015

Postby Tony Goodwin » Mon Feb 02, 2015 8:52 pm

This gravel is being shipped over a greater distance than a similar load of gravel would ever be economically be shipped. It is coming from one IPH railroad to provide material for maintenance/improvement of another stretch of publicly-owned (MassDOT) track that is operated by another IPH railroad.

I don't know what other "proof" is required to show that this is not a sustainable market for tailings from Tahawus.
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