Railroad grade out of Angelica

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Railroad grade out of Angelica

Postby Cactus Jack » Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:30 am

Does anyone know where the line went out of Angelica to Belfast Junction? that was part of the Lackawanna & Pittsburgh and Globe Fast Freight Line.
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Re: Railroad grade out of Angelica

Postby K4Pacific » Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:32 pm

Proficient on the Southern Tier Line, The former PRR Elmira Branch, A little LV, A lot of EL, And of course, the Corning Secondary. Someone always knows more than me. Remember the Binghamton yardmaster that routinely said in a high voice, "No! No! No! That's not what I told you to do!"?
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Re: Railroad grade out of Angelica

Postby dj_paige » Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:59 pm

Topographic maps show where the Pittsburg, Shawmut and Northern went from Angelica, none of them seem to lead to Belfast.
http://docs.unh.edu/nhtopos/Angelica.htm
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Re: Railroad grade out of Angelica

Postby CarterB » Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:07 pm

This exact topo map section shows it in Angelica.
http://historical.mytopo.com/getImage.a ... g&state=NY
I agree didn't go to Belfast. Pretty much paralled the Erie from Belvidere. Erie and PRR crossed at Belfast.
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Re: Railroad grade out of Angelica

Postby erie2937 » Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:19 pm

Lackawanna & Pittsburgh Railroad grade between Angelica and Belfast is visible in some places. On the west side of the creek there is an old road next to a farm that is on the r-o-w. Then it follows a line of telephone poles for a while. It went through the golf course and headed for the Genesee River. Nothing visible today on east side of river. But from the west side of the river the bridge abutments can still be see in the riverbed. You have to drive into a private driveway to see them. Once across the river the r-o-w came right up next to NY 19, crossed 19 and headed for the truck stop. It went through the truck stop. R-o-w can be spotted behind the truck stop and can be hiked right out onto the fill that led to the bridge over White Creek. By this time the r-o-w is probably half a mile or so west of 19. The fill on the north side of the creek is also visible. The r-o-w made a swing through a field - there is still a large culvert visible just to the north of the road along the north side of the creek. It joined the Genesee Valley Canal Railroad/WNY&P(later PRR Rochester Branch) right at the grade crossing. We dug up spikes in the hayfield and on the old culvert as well as on the fill leading to the trestle over the creek. I wrote this up for The Cannonball, the magazine published by the PS&NRRHS. Note - there is also a r-o-w that crosses White Creek right next to 19 where old abutments still exist. That is the B&S. You won't find much of anything on any topo maps because the line to Belfast from Angelica was abandoned early in the 1890's.
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Re: Railroad grade out of Angelica

Postby CarterB » Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:30 pm

I stand corrected, never knew a line actually went from Angelica to Belfast.
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Re: Railroad grade out of Angelica

Postby thebigham » Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:51 pm

^It was abandoned circa 1892 so sometimes it's not on old maps.

The bridge abutments for the Genesee River bridge can still be seen.
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Re: Railroad grade out of Angelica

Postby Cactus Jack » Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:21 pm

Thanks for the info, I was sure someone out there knew what I was talking about ! Just where did the alignment diverge from the later day PS&N as it left Angelica ? I am not sure I understand going west from the depot where the two right of ways diverged and was the PS&N R-O-W between Angelica and Friendship basically on the old narrow gage or are they different alignments ?
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Re: Railroad grade out of Angelica

Postby pumpers » Sat Dec 08, 2012 4:52 am

Here's three sites google turned up quickly (didn't look long), all with mention of remains and locations about Angelica to Belfast. One has quite a detailed map of what you can find. Amazing what's out there (both in terms of RR remains if you know where to look, and what you can find with Google!)
http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=128&t=1644&start=15 - actually from railroad.net
http://www.alleganyhistory.org/culture/transportation/railroads/pittsburgh-shawmut-a-northern-railroad/1992-when-the-shawmut-went-to-belfast
http://www.railfan.net/lists/erielack-digest/200005/msg00276.html
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Re: Railroad grade out of Angelica

Postby thebigham » Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:07 pm

^Thanks for finding my original post.

I hiked that area with nydepot back in 2004.

Here are some of the highlights of the line at Bing Maps:

http://binged.it/11YlBdd
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Re: Railroad grade out of Angelica

Postby RussNelson » Sun Dec 09, 2012 2:47 pm



I'm having trouble reconciling the map there with the thebigham's Bing annotations, along with the 100' hill west of 19 that the B&S supposedly goes over.
A more plausible routing for the B&S is on the west side of 19 following it closely, diverging at SH-305, with the L&P crossing the Genesee where thebigham says it does, promptly crossing 19 and continuing as described in the map.

Yet that leaves no place for the "visible grade [east of 19]".

So I'm kinda confused. It sounds like there are people here who have done the field work, so maybe somebody could clear this up for me?!?
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Re: Railroad grade out of Angelica

Postby RussNelson » Sun Dec 09, 2012 3:42 pm

Okay, after reading through this thread, looking at maps, and descriptions, and the terraserver.homeadvisor.msn.com links (which don't work anymore, but ... I have a way to find them), this seems to be the proper route: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/195427742

That still leaves the "visible grade [east of 19]" unexplained.
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Re: Railroad grade out of Angelica

Postby CarterB » Sun Dec 09, 2012 5:52 pm

Russ, on Bing maps, if you look in the 'facing west' direction on birds eye view at N 42.30419 W 78.04229, there seems to be what looks like an old trestle or bridge pier?
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Re: Railroad grade out of Angelica

Postby RussNelson » Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:58 pm

CarterB wrote:Russ, on Bing maps, if you look in the 'facing west' direction on birds eye view at N 42.30419 W 78.04229, there seems to be what looks like an old trestle or bridge pier?

Yes, that is the most obvious bit of the L&P remains.
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Re: Railroad grade out of Angelica

Postby dj_paige » Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:11 pm

RussNelson wrote:Okay, after reading through this thread, looking at maps, and descriptions, and the terraserver.homeadvisor.msn.com links (which don't work anymore, but ... I have a way to find them), this seems to be the proper route: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/195427742

That still leaves the "visible grade [east of 19]" unexplained.


There are noticeable discrepancies between the map at alleghanyhistory.org and your openstreetmap, especially south and east of Route 350. One such discrepancy is that according to the hand-drawn map, B&S and L&P ROWs cross to the west of White Creek Road, while on your openstreetmap, these ROWs cross to the east of White Creek Rd (looks like about 1000ft to the east). A second discrepancy is the that B&S ROW is shown on the hand-drawn map to be a noticeable distance from Rt 19, while at openstreetmap, the B&S ROW appears to be adjacent to Rt 19 at least when Rt 19 heads almost due south. And of course, the 3rd discrepancy would be the "visible grade [east of 19]".
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