National Docks Branch Improvments

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National Docks Branch Improvments

Postby CR7876 » Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:11 am

Effective 1201 Monday July 23rd, CP-LIBERTY at MP 3.1, CP-CHAPEL at MP 4.9, and a new controlled siding 9,500 feet in length will be placed in service on the National Docks Branch, enabling meets on the Branch as part of the ongoing Greenville Yard expansion.
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Re: National Docks Branch Improvments

Postby pumpers » Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:36 pm

Companies investing $$ is always a good thing. I'm a bit surprised to hear this (both the siding and Greenville Yd expansion) I admit, given all the general gloom and doom about RR traffic in NJ I usually hear. JS
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Re: National Docks Branch Improvments

Postby ccutler » Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:37 am

Port Authority is paying for most of it. They are building another ship-to-rail container terminal there while improving the freightcar ferry service.
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Re: National Docks Branch Improvments

Postby rr503 » Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:10 pm

pumpers wrote:Companies investing $$ is always a good thing. I'm a bit surprised to hear this (both the siding and Greenville Yd expansion) I admit, given all the general gloom and doom about RR traffic in NJ I usually hear. JS


The doom and gloom relates mostly to conventional traffic. Sure, some of that is justified, but there's a certain base of industry that, provided decent service, is bound both to NJ and to rail (chemicals, lumber yards, stone yards, any sort of warehouse that receives heavy products, etc).

I also think it's wrong to rag on unconventional freight. IM, trash and the like have been the growth engine for NJ rail traffic over the last few decades, and in all likelihood will continue to be -- especially as PANAMAX expansion's and ship rerouting's effects are felt on container volumes at PANYNJ.
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Re: National Docks Branch Improvments

Postby pumpers » Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:29 pm

rr503 wrote:The doom and gloom relates mostly to conventional traffic. Sure, some of that is justified, but there's a certain base of industry that, provided decent service, is bound both to NJ and to rail (chemicals, lumber yards, stone yards, any sort of warehouse that receives heavy products, etc).

I also think it's wrong to rag on unconventional freight. IM, trash and the like have been the growth engine for NJ rail traffic over the last few decades, and in all likelihood will continue to be -- especially as PANAMAX expansion's and ship rerouting's effects are felt on container volumes at PANYNJ.

I hope my post wasn't misinterpreted. Far be it from me to rag on new sources of traffic. The world changes, you have to adapt. If we were still relying on anthracite to support NJ railroads, then we would really be in trouble.
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Re: National Docks Branch Improvments

Postby rr503 » Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:45 pm

pumpers wrote:
rr503 wrote:The doom and gloom relates mostly to conventional traffic. Sure, some of that is justified, but there's a certain base of industry that, provided decent service, is bound both to NJ and to rail (chemicals, lumber yards, stone yards, any sort of warehouse that receives heavy products, etc).

I also think it's wrong to rag on unconventional freight. IM, trash and the like have been the growth engine for NJ rail traffic over the last few decades, and in all likelihood will continue to be -- especially as PANAMAX expansion's and ship rerouting's effects are felt on container volumes at PANYNJ.

I hope my post wasn't misinterpreted. Far be it from me to rag on new sources of traffic. The world changes, you have to adapt. If we were still relying on anthracite to support NJ railroads, then we would really be in trouble.


Oh no misinterpretation! My apologies! I simply wished to respond to those opinions you alluded to.
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Re: National Docks Branch Improvments

Postby rr503 » Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:00 pm

Tangentially related, but it seems the new ExpressRail facility in Greenville will open sometime towards the end of this year. See bottom of this press release:

http://www.panynj.gov/press-room/press- ... ne_id=2970

Should be interesting to see what (if any) trains are created/where they go. The international IM landscape has changed dramatically over the past year or so.
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Re: National Docks Branch Improvments

Postby R&DB » Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:37 am

rr503 » Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:00 pm

Should be interesting to see what (if any) trains are created/where they go.

I wonder if the majority of the new traffic from the Greeneville/National Docks/ExpressRail will be routed through Croxton or Oak Island.
Last edited by R&DB on Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: National Docks Branch Improvments

Postby rr503 » Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:15 am

R&DB wrote:
rr503 » Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:00 pm

Should be interesting to see what (if any) trains are created/where they go.


I wonder if the majority of the new traffic from the Greeneville/National Docks/ExpressRail will routed through Croxton or Oak Island.


Just spitballing here, but I'd assume that's gonna depend on the railroad -- CSX will send trains up to North Bergen/River Line, NS to OI and then Lehigh. That said, there's always the possibility the new terminal won't generate enough traffic to justify its own train(s), in which case I'd assume NS would route containers to Croxton for combination with other IM runs.
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Re: National Docks Branch Improvments

Postby SecaucusJunction » Sun Aug 19, 2018 7:03 am

NS combines some of the traffic with Erail trains since it’s right next door. Right now, they don’t really run the National Docks at all except to occasionally shuffle cars around. The only reason they ever would run there is if they decided to run traffic north to Binghamton and Buffalo via Port Jervis as has long been rumored but never happened.
I think it may be possible that NJ Transit might not be the perfect, infallible organization that most people assume it is.
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Re: National Docks Branch Improvments

Postby pumpers » Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:42 pm

SecaucusJunction wrote:NS combines some of the traffic with Erail trains since it’s right next door. Right now, they don’t really run the National Docks at all except to occasionally shuffle cars around. The only reason they ever would run there is if they decided to run traffic north to Binghamton and Buffalo via Port Jervis as has long been rumored but never happened.

So all the traffic heading west from Coxton on the Lehigh line (or in the other direction) goes via the P&H?
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Re: National Docks Branch Improvments

Postby rr503 » Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:31 am

pumpers wrote:
SecaucusJunction wrote:NS combines some of the traffic with Erail trains since it’s right next door. Right now, they don’t really run the National Docks at all except to occasionally shuffle cars around. The only reason they ever would run there is if they decided to run traffic north to Binghamton and Buffalo via Port Jervis as has long been rumored but never happened.

So all the traffic heading west from Coxton on the Lehigh line (or in the other direction) goes via the P&H?


Yes. Really the only traffic that uses the ND today is stuff that has to — moves to Bayonne and Greenville, and runs from the north to Oak Island or points along the Chemical Coast (and their equivalents in the other direction). Otherwise, it’s an unnecessarily slow jughandle east on a largely single track line.
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Re: National Docks Branch Improvments

Postby SecaucusJunction » Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:35 am

The amount of traffic on the line is actually pretty significant. I believe most of the CSX gen freights make stops at OI. All of the CSX port container traffic, autorack traffic and ethanol traffic take the route.
I think it may be possible that NJ Transit might not be the perfect, infallible organization that most people assume it is.
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