Conway Scenic Railroad (CSRX) discussion thread

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Re: Conway Scenic Railroad (CSRX) discussion thread

Postby Jonathan » Sun Jul 08, 2018 2:33 pm

gokeefe wrote:I am probably also meshing "insular" with being a "common carrier" which are two different things. CSRX is not a common carrier they're a private railroad but they are not "insular" as defined by the FRA. Common carrier status is regulated by the STB and means in effect that the railroad is open to the public (at defined places) for carriage of passengers and/or freight. Scenic railroads have certain exclusions from becoming a common carrier even though they carry passengers and are otherwise open to the public. CSRX is not open for freight although they may make contracted moves from time to time.

Having other railroads run through to CSRX would almost certainly make them a common carrier and that is something I am sure they wish to avoid.

That last part is not debatable. Now tying this back to ski season, I think they should have trains up to Attitash and back
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Re: Conway Scenic Railroad (CSRX) discussion thread

Postby gokeefe » Sun Jul 08, 2018 2:51 pm

I wondered as well if opening up Attitash was part of a bigger picture strategy to develop an option for ski trains. Thus far CSRX has never run scheduled service in the winter. It would certainly be interesting to see them try.
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Re: Conway Scenic Railroad (CSRX) discussion thread

Postby b&m 1566 » Sun Jul 08, 2018 11:24 pm

Jonathan wrote:
gokeefe wrote:Conway Scenic is operated as an "insular tourist railroad" a special regulatory designation by the FRA which allows them to operate certain types of equipment and be free of certain operating requirements that would otherwise kick in if another carrier's trains cross into their property.

Any proposal which would jeopardize this status is a non-starter for CSRX.


No it's not an insular railroad.. If CSRX can only operate their own equipment, how do you explain the transformer move in 2009?


I think they had to get permission from the stb for a one time move of that transformer. They had to do it again last year to operate over common carrier rail, to reach the dimond in Whitefield and they probably will have to do the same again this year when they run the same special.
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Re: Conway Scenic Railroad (CSRX) discussion thread

Postby flyingfox10 » Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:13 pm

Couple of things, The "Kearsarge Branch" is officially called the Mountain Branch.

Conway Scenic is infact insular or not a common carrier depending on wording, which means their crews have their own qualifications to meet, but do not require liscensing, drug tests, etc. that other railroads do. And yes there are other railroads that opeeate under these rules as well right here in the Northeast.

The transformer move required special permitting, special inspections, etc so that they could remain a non common carrier.
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Re: Conway Scenic Railroad (CSRX) discussion thread

Postby gokeefe » Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:47 pm

Since I started this mess I should probably clean it up ...

"Insular" refers to an FRA designation that affects operating rules for safety. Based on the CFR previously posted CSRX is not an insular carrier. They might be something else which lessens their requirements but "insular" as defined by the FRA is not them.

"Common carrier" refers to an STB designation that affects many regulatory aspects but in particular has to do with how CSRX interacts with the rest of the national railroad network. CSRX is not a common carrier (some tourist railroads are) and as such they are not required to accept freight delivered from other railroads.
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Re: Conway Scenic Railroad (CSRX) discussion thread

Postby p42thedowneaster » Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:36 pm

Anyone know what's going on with #4268? Last I saw they had the primemover out of #1757 and the trucks swapped out. Where is the 567 now?
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Re: Conway Scenic Railroad (CSRX) discussion thread

Postby Jonathan » Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:40 pm

4268 I have no clue. I'm praying in the process of being restored.
Last edited by MEC407 on Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: unnecessary quoting
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Re: Conway Scenic Railroad (CSRX) discussion thread

Postby Jonathan » Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:46 pm

flyingfox10 wrote:
Conway Scenic is infact insular or not a common carrier depending on wording, which means their crews have their own qualifications to meet, but do not require liscensing, drug tests, etc. that other railroads do. And yes there are other railroads that opeeate under these rules as well right here in the Northeast.
.

But the CSRX is an FRA mandated railroad. So, how can they have their own qualifications? And a further question, I want to work for CSRX. What are those qualifications?
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Re: Conway Scenic Railroad (CSRX) discussion thread

Postby flyingfox10 » Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:52 pm

I am not sure how exactly it works, but they do follow FRA rules and regulations, and have an FRA approved training program but do not issue certifications on a federal level. They also have the equipment and track inspected annually by the FRA per law. As years go on I suspect things will change and every railroad under FRA in the country will likely have to certify its crews on a Federal requirement. Maybe because they have their own rules and special instructions as opposed to qualifying under NORAC and or GCOR. It was explained to me once about 10 years ago, but I forget the exact phrases used.

As for requirements only thing I can suggest is apply and find out. Requirements varie depending on job(s) you apply for.
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Re: Conway Scenic Railroad (CSRX) discussion thread

Postby b&m 1566 » Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:22 pm

gokeefe wrote:I wondered as well if opening up Attitash was part of a bigger picture strategy to develop an option for ski trains. Thus far CSRX has never run scheduled service in the winter. It would certainly be interesting to see them try.


I doubt you'll see it, that's there maintenance season. Besides, I think their lease is seasonal only, April 1st - December 31st. "Steam in the Snow" is the sole exception. January 1st to March 31st, is snowmobiles season and I'm pretty sure they helped pay for the repairs for some of the washouts that occurred back in 2011. On top of all the regular expense just to run the railroad, now your talking about snow removal from parking lots, sidewalks, platforms (non revenue runs to keep the line clear) ice melt products, probably higher insurance premiums too. Maybe someday I'll be wong but right now, I just don't see it; certainly not during this current contractual lease agreement, which goes till what?, December 31, 2023?
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Re: Conway Scenic Railroad (CSRX) discussion thread

Postby gokeefe » Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:12 pm

It would definitely require some adjustments operationally. I doubt their insurance coverage would rise based on adding a season but perhaps there is a limitation on annnual revenue train miles.

I will say that I feel confident that NHDOT would accomodate them if winter service involved one of the major ski resorts.
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Re: Conway Scenic Railroad (CSRX) discussion thread

Postby CSRR573 » Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:58 pm

b&m 1566 wrote:
gokeefe wrote:I wondered as well if opening up Attitash was part of a bigger picture strategy to develop an option for ski trains. Thus far CSRX has never run scheduled service in the winter. It would certainly be interesting to see them try.


I doubt you'll see it, that's there maintenance season. Besides, I think their lease is seasonal only, April 1st - December 31st. "Steam in the Snow" is the sole exception. January 1st to March 31st, is snowmobiles season and I'm pretty sure they helped pay for the repairs for some of the washouts that occurred back in 2011. On top of all the regular expense just to run the railroad, now your talking about snow removal from parking lots, sidewalks, platforms (non revenue runs to keep the line clear) ice melt products, probably higher insurance premiums too. Maybe someday I'll be wong but right now, I just don't see it; certainly not during this current contractual lease agreement, which goes till what?, December 31, 2023?


this ^ Im pretty sure ive read that theyre lease prevents them for operating jan 1st to march 31st. Also I believe the conway branch is technically a designated snow mobile path during this time and the csrr cannot operate on the line despite them owning it
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Re: Conway Scenic Railroad (CSRX) discussion thread

Postby BandA » Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:18 pm

How wide is the ROW? Perhaps rail-with-trail might be necessary. You are in the mountain & valley, so running in the winter will require plowing!
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Re: Conway Scenic Railroad (CSRX) discussion thread

Postby theseaandalifesaver » Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:33 pm

I just got to visit the CSRR for the first time in about five years and I have a few questions:

1. Seems like got a little static display/paint happy. All the freight and especially 501 seem to have just gotten brand new coats of paint. Does CSRR do all that on site? Is this a fairly new thing?

2. Where did all the new freight (boxcars/snowplow) come from?

3. Did they finally scrap the old snow plow that stayed on the west side of the turntable for so long?

4. I saw 4266, where's 4268?
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Re: Conway Scenic Railroad (CSRX) discussion thread

Postby b&m 1566 » Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:25 pm

Most of the freight cars have received time in the round house for maintenance and painting. And yes all done by the Railroad. I wouldn't say it's a new thing, it was just time to get it done, sorta speak. The blue box car was purchased from the state last summer and removed from storage in Whitefield, the same with the plow but that was purchase about 10 years ago now. The old one is now in Bartlett out in front of the roundhouse.
If 4268 wasn't out back of the roundhouse it must be in it.
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