Crazy proposal: SLE to Mohegan sun

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Crazy proposal: SLE to Mohegan sun

Postby Traingeek3629 » Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:12 am

A lot of people from from NYC, Stamford, Bridgeport, and New haven go to Mohegan Sun. There is no doubt about it. However, most people are usually stuck taking Amtrak to NLC, then getting on a bus. If a few SLEs a day went up that line, (I believe the NECR) they would attract not only ridership from Montville/Norwich, but loads of people destined for the casino. This would of been a much better proposal 15 years ago, when there was no casino in Springfield or Bridgeport, but I think it is worth talking about.
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Re: Crazy proposal: SLE to Mohegan sun

Postby DutchRailnut » Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:49 am

a fantasy is not a proposal .
If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

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Re: Crazy proposal: SLE to Mohegan sun

Postby njt/mnrrbuff » Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:47 pm

Two words-not happening.
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Re: Crazy proposal: SLE to Mohegan sun

Postby Backshophoss » Fri Jun 15, 2018 6:56 pm

Great timing,since the Barrett-Jackson auction is about to happen there,There're plenty of bus charters that go to that casino.
There was a bus charter that ran out of Stamford on a regular basis.

Both Mohegan Sun and Foxwoods are Indian casinos,and are close to a major highway.
Rail service,forget it,too far away from the NEC.
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Re: Crazy proposal: SLE to Mohegan sun

Postby Traingeek3629 » Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:26 pm

I didn't say it was likely; I said it would be interesting and crazy. It also wouldn't be feasible to operate on a regular basis. Special trains could run, maybe just on concert/sports game nights or major weekends.
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Re: Crazy proposal: SLE to Mohegan sun

Postby Jeff Smith » Wed Oct 24, 2018 12:19 pm

I've taken the bus from NLC; it's not far at all. There's been talk about passenger service on the two lines out of NLC; one to Worcester, the other on the Knowledge Corridor? I don't remember who owns which, but they're opposite sides of the river IIRC. If it made sense, the casino's could pony up, but they seem to be doing fine with the buses.

Off-forum, but at one point, didn't the Montrealer run via New London?
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Re: Crazy proposal: SLE to Mohegan sun

Postby SecaucusJunction » Wed Oct 24, 2018 1:14 pm

The Montrealer did used to run via New London probably until the 90's sometime. It made a hard left turn right after but I'm not sure which trackage it gained.
I think it may be possible that NJ Transit might not be the perfect, infallible organization that most people assume it is.
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Re: Crazy proposal: SLE to Mohegan sun

Postby Traingeek3629 » Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:39 pm

If service began up there, Mohegan Sun should definitely be a stop. I'm pretty sure the Worcester service is out of Providence.
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Re: Crazy proposal: SLE to Mohegan sun

Postby TomNelligan » Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:35 pm

SecaucusJunction wrote:The Montrealer did used to run via New London probably until the 90's sometime. It made a hard left turn right after but I'm not sure which trackage it gained.


For roughly ten years in the late 80s/early 90s it ran via New London and Willimantic on the Central Vermont, on the west side of the river, in the middle of the night. The train was rerouted onto the CV in Connecticut in the 80s due to track conditions on the B&M Connecticut River Line north of Springfield. When the Montrealer was replaced by the daytime Vermonter running via Springfield and Palmer, the CV line reverted to freight only.
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Re: Crazy proposal: SLE to Mohegan sun

Postby Backshophoss » Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:51 pm

Leave the casinos out of rail service,Bus connections at New London would be better,Amtrak already shows a bus connection to Foxwood.
CV has become a fallen Flag,not sure who took over the remains.
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Re: Crazy proposal: SLE to Mohegan sun

Postby shadyjay » Thu Oct 25, 2018 3:02 pm

The CV line is now operated by the New England Central, owned by G&W. G&W also more recently acquired the Providence & Worcester, which runs on the east side of the Thames. The two lines parallel each other up to Norwich then branch off their separate ways. Now, I have heard that traffic on the NECR is very sparse south of Norwich, with just a handful of customers and less-than-frequent service. But, the line is being upgraded with welded rail down to (I'm not sure how far south in CT). Could the NECR line support a passenger train up to Mohegan Sun given their current traffic levels? Probably. Would G&W (owners) be legit with it? Potentially. Would it make money? Most likely not. The line does pass right by Mohegan Sun, but not sure if its a "drop in a station and walk 200' into the casino" type of situation (most likely not). Since it would be a new startup, you'd most likely have to have a full length high level platform and NECR may want a second track (or a mini-high) in case of any high & wide movements. Given past experiences with "train to the casino", I wouldn't hold my breath on any service making much money. Look at Amtrak's Atlantic City service, and NJ Transit's ACES experiment. The buses seem to have a lock on casino traffic in the east. Mohegan Sun and New London are within close proximity and its a quick shot up Route 32 to I-395 to Route 2A to reach the casino.

Over the years, there has been talk of restoring passenger service from New London through Norwich and Worcester, and the NECR line in my opinion is a prime candidate for this service. You would have to rebuild the (what, 1/2 mile?) connection between the NECR and P&W lines in Norwich, but you wouldn't have to deal with crossing the Thames, nor would you have to run through the Sub Base. Since I don't think there are any customers on the P&W south of (is it still?) Dow Chemical at Allyn's Point (north of the base), you could, in theory, abandon that trackage and just reroute all traffic over to the NECR line. That'd make the Navy happy, I'm sure. And if you do a New London<->Worcester service, then you may want to try a platform at Mohegan Sun. Or market the station stop as "Mohegan-Pequot" to serve both casinos. But again, with the history of specialized casino services, yo wouldn't want to put all your eggs in that one basket. Instead, add it as an infill station for a larger project to develop passenger service to a corridor that lost it April 30, 1971.

EDIT:
It appears that that 1/2 mile or so connection in Norwich would require a new bridge over the Thames at some point. Looks like a "bike path" of some sorts exists where a bridge would cross the narrower part of the river, but you wouldn't have a direct connection given how close the NECR line is to the river. The switch would face north, so you'd have to go through the switch, then reverse to head north to the P&W. So maybe not that easy.

Also, a Google Maps image of the NECR line passing by Mohegan Sun makes the addition of a station "possible". It doesn't appear to be a steep grade change between the railroad and the "casino level". https://www.google.com/maps/@41.4908657 ... 312!8i6656
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Re: Crazy proposal: SLE to Mohegan sun

Postby Train60 » Thu Oct 25, 2018 7:53 pm

Traingeek3629 wrote:A lot of people from from NYC, Stamford, Bridgeport, and New haven go to Mohegan Sun. There is no doubt about it. However, most people are usually stuck taking Amtrak to NLC, then getting on a bus. If a few SLEs a day went up that line, (I believe the NECR) they would attract not only ridership from Montville/Norwich, but loads of people destined for the casino. This would of been a much better proposal 15 years ago, when there was no casino in Springfield or Bridgeport, but I think it is worth talking about.

Anyone who wants to take a train to a casino simply needs to take take MN or SLE to New Haven and connect to Hartford Line train to Springfield.
Details here -- https://trainsinthevalley.org/train-to-mgm-springfield/
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Re: Crazy proposal: SLE to Mohegan sun

Postby TomNelligan » Thu Oct 25, 2018 8:54 pm

Traingeek3629 wrote:A lot of people from from NYC, Stamford, Bridgeport, and New haven go to Mohegan Sun. There is no doubt about it. However, most people are usually stuck taking Amtrak to NLC, then getting on a bus.


No, people are not "stuck" with Amtrak. Most Connecticut casino visitors who aren't driving, especially day trippers, take one of the vast number of well-advertised buses (both scheduled and chartered) that run daily from multiple points around the northeast. My elderly mom used to be an occasional patron of one such run from New Haven until health issues caught up with her. Just drive I-95 east from New London in the morning and watch them all going by in the other direction. And not only are these buses direct to the front door of the casino, they're also quite cheap and usually give out free meal tickets and other perks as well. It was an inability to cut into the dedicated bus traffic into Atlantic City that killed Amtrak's experiment with service there.
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Re: Crazy proposal: SLE to Mohegan sun

Postby dha10001 » Thu Oct 25, 2018 9:03 pm

I don't see this as a crazy proposal at all. In fact, I see it as a logical and beneficial expansion of CT's statewide rail system. This is a corridor with growing demand for transportation solutions to serve job and population growth, with an important multimodal hub along the NEC on the southern end that is also the current terminus of the Shore Line East, and super proximate to Mohegan Sun, which could provide convenient access for employees and visitors coming from CT, New York, Norwich and RI. The first phase could be a shuttle service or an extension of SLE from New London to Norwich. Future expansion to Willimantic and Mansfield would be possible in the future, particularly with the prospect of the NEC being rerouted through Hartford. Expanding local rail service along the NEC to RI is certainly a higher priority and one longer in the making, but this would be a great addition to the rail system's roster of destinations and could be a way to drive -via rail - more visitors to Mohegan. Judging this proposal by its ability to generate a profit is an inappropriate and unrealistic proposition. Its transportation and economic development utility is noteworthy. There will likely also be political benefits in continuing to expand rail service to new parts of the state for any governor wise enough to convey the value of rail investment to cities and towns.
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Re: Crazy proposal: SLE to Mohegan sun

Postby jlichyen » Sat Oct 27, 2018 2:07 am

My understanding is that Mohegan Sun, when it was first built, was designed with room for a station stop along the tracks to provide possible rail service from New London - but that's on the west side of the Thames. Using the P&W on the eastern side is impossible for casino purposes without building some kind of bridge across the Thames - not worth it.

Both Norwich and New London are large and dense enough in their downtowns that they'd probably get decent ridership (but i don't have the numbers, only anecdotes, so I'd like to see commuting data) and between them, the casino, UConn students at Mansfield/Storrs, I think there might be enough to warrant a trial from New Haven. Maybe.
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