MotivePower and Vossloh fight over "T" locomotive contract

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MotivePower and Vossloh fight over "T" locomotive contract

Postby MEC407 » Sat Oct 25, 2008 11:03 am

Last edited by MEC407 on Sat Oct 25, 2008 11:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: MotivePower and Vossloh fight over "T" locomotive contract

Postby DutchRailnut » Sat Oct 25, 2008 11:18 am

your underlinimg killed the first link:
http://www.fortmilltimes.com/124/story/335914.html

I wonder how business at EMD and GE turns out, if politicians in Europe were as anal as politicians in Idaho.
After all, Europe buys hundreds of locomotives in USA
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Re: MotivePower and Vossloh fight over "T" locomotive contract

Postby atsf sp » Sat Oct 25, 2008 9:40 pm

We are discussing the T MPI/Vossloh deals in MBTA Forum New MBTA Locomotive Discussion Topic.
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Re: MotivePower and Vossloh fight over "T" locomotive contract

Postby MEC407 » Sun Nov 16, 2008 4:39 pm

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Re: MotivePower and Vossloh fight over "T" locomotive contract

Postby DutchRailnut » Sun Nov 16, 2008 5:36 pm

not so fast,the MPI express locomotives are nearly 15 000 lbs overweight.
watch for second bid by VossLoh to built all 28 in the USA.
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Re: MotivePower and Vossloh fight over "T" locomotive contract

Postby Allen Hazen » Mon Nov 17, 2008 12:24 am

I've noticed in announcements of previous MPI commuter locomotives that they are fantastically heavy. (I guess having a 16-710 engine plus passenger equipment will do that to you. And if they are cowl units-- much cheaper construction than the truss frame of first generation carbody diesels-- they need a heavy frame like a roadswitcher's.) With modern adhesion control, the locomotive shouldn't need all that weight for adhesion, even in stop-and-start commuter service. Maybe it's time somebody re-invented the A1A truck?
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(Hint to modelers: get in ahead of the full size railroads: build a slightly lengthened version of the MPI locomotive with running gear like an FL-9!)
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Re: MotivePower and Vossloh fight over "T" locomotive contract

Postby 498 » Tue Nov 18, 2008 8:00 am

So how do any of the people on this forum know the exact details of what MPI and Vossloh have proposed? Are they on the MBTA's team evaluating the proposals?
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Re: MotivePower and Vossloh fight over "T" locomotive contract

Postby tominboise » Thu Nov 20, 2008 6:35 pm

DutchRailnut wrote:not so fast,the MPI express locomotives are nearly 15 000 lbs overweight.
watch for second bid by VossLoh to built all 28 in the USA.


If MBTA opens up the process to allow Vossloh to propose building all 28 in the US, they also have to allow MPI to requote their proposal. They also said in their waiver request that time is of the essence, and that they do not have time in the procurement process to allow for revised proposals.
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Re: MotivePower and Vossloh fight over "T" locomotive contract

Postby FCP503 » Thu Nov 20, 2008 8:26 pm

So you have two bidders for a contract and MBTA rejects one because it is too heavy, and the other because it isn't "made in USA." What is the dollar value of all this?

Is it any wonder that EMD and GE have opted out of building locos like this?
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Re: MotivePower and Vossloh fight over "T" locomotive contract

Postby tominboise » Fri Nov 21, 2008 6:19 pm

I must have missed where it was noted that the MPI locomotive is too heavy. Can you point it out for me?
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Re: MotivePower and Vossloh fight over "T" locomotive contract

Postby DutchRailnut » Sat Nov 22, 2008 8:26 am

Read the thread in MBTA forum, it has way more info.
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Re: MotivePower and Vossloh fight over "T" locomotive contract

Postby diburning » Fri Feb 27, 2009 11:41 am

MPi bid on the contract for MP0PH-3Cs.

The problem was that the MP40PH-3Cs were too heavy because of the large fuel tank and if loaded up with fuel, it will weigh too much. MPI had to bid to specs so they probably offered a model with a smaller fuel tank, but MBTA was leaning toward the Vosslohs because they were cheaper (MPIs cost more for the modifictions)

Here's a comparison of the weight

MP40PH-3C - 300,000 pounds. Divided by 4 axles, it's 75,000 pounds per axle.
ES44DC - 400,000 pounds. Divided by 6 axles, It's 66,667 pounds per axle.
ES44AH (ES44AC-CTE) - 432,000 pounds. Divided by 6 axles, it's 72,000 pounds per axle.

The ES44AC-CTE is very close to the MP40PH-3C in weight per axle, but the frieght operator CSX (which operates on some of MBTA's lines) KNOW that they are heavy. The ES44AC-CTEs cannot run faster than 40mph because they would tear up the rail. If the MBTA got the MP40PH-3Cs, it wouldn't be very useful to run a passenger train at 35mph, let alone run them on the NEC where the track speed for MBTA is 80MPH.

Converting the MP40PH-3C to 6 axle trucks or a A1A truck would probably cost more than cutting down the fuel tank as it would involve frame modifications and they'd have to cut down the fuel tank anyways for wheelbase adjustment.
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Re: MotivePower and Vossloh fight over "T" locomotive contra

Postby MEC407 » Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:47 am

I should have updated this thread a long time ago, but for some reason I never got around to it.

MBTA awarded the bid to MPI. Not for MP40PH-3Cs, but for a completely new locomotive called the HSP46.

More info at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MPI_HSP46
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