WANTED - info on Greenville ops circa 1999-2001

Discussion related to NYAR operations on Long Island. Official web site can be found here: www.anacostia.com/nyar/nyar.html. Also includes discussion related to NYNJ Rail, the carfloat operation successor to New York Cross Harbor that connects with NYAR.

WANTED - info on Greenville ops circa 1999-2001

Postby Lupo10 » Mon Aug 24, 2015 1:30 pm

Some of you who have posted here before 2004 may remember me always asking for info on the then NYCH and NYA for my HO scale plans of said railroads. Its now been 11 years, 3 jobs, 3 houses, 2 kids and an 1800 mile move to Colorado since I pretty much last posted. Trains have been unpacked and construction began on a layout in earnest last year. I personally have the most knowledge about these railroads from the era mentioned in the subject line so I'm focusing my modelling efforts then. But I am still a humble student to those who live, breathe and even work these railroads. My wish list of information is as follows and I thank you in advance for any info you can provide me.

1. Any info on NYCH track assignments by job, etc. When the float was pulled which tracks got switched etc.?
2. Any info on what tracks in A yard were used by Port Jersey RR. I have some info for instance that track 4 (the one furthest to the south) was storage for covered hoppers?
3. Did CSAO pull interchange traffic for NYCH into A yard or all the way down to the float bridges?
4. Any info on switching the auto marine terminal and how that's done? Tracks used, locomotives used etc.
5. Any info on switching Tropicana. Same as above

I have the track plan already and am actually 90% finished laying track with a pretty good recreation (save for selective compression) of the yard in HO scale. Now I am fumbling with prototypical switching of my railroad. Again I am your humble student. Thanks in advance.

Joe
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Re: WANTED - info on Greenville ops circa 1999-2001

Postby nyandw » Thu Sep 03, 2015 7:58 pm

Joe,

For NYCH try Phil Goldstein's terrific site: http://members.trainweb.com/bedt/indloco/nych.html
Image

You might try posting about these operations over in the LIRR to see if anyone has a lead.
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Re: WANTED - info on Greenville ops circa 1999-2001

Postby ccutler » Thu Sep 03, 2015 9:46 pm

I used to drive around that area a few times a year back in the late 1990s. It was hard to see the scope of carfloat operations but I would tell you that the carfloat was modest compared to Tropicana, the next-door large-scale scrap yard, and the Port Jersey Railroad. I completely forgot about the auto transload facility. Port Jersey serviced a substantial warehouse complex just south of the carfloat operation. I think they are still in business but with a diminished warehouse client base.

I think that, if you modeled that area at that time, the carfloat would probably be about 10% of your car volume, or less.
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Re: WANTED - info on Greenville ops circa 1999-2001

Postby Sir Ray » Fri Sep 04, 2015 10:01 am

ccutler wrote:I used to drive around that area a few times a year back in the late 1990s. It was hard to see the scope of carfloat operations but I would tell you that the carfloat was modest compared to Tropicana, the next-door large-scale scrap yard, and the Port Jersey Railroad. I completely forgot about the auto transload facility. Port Jersey serviced a substantial warehouse complex just south of the carfloat operation. I think they are still in business but with a diminished warehouse client base.
I also used to railfan the area some around the turn of the century, and for whatever reason there were always strings of covered hoppers along Port Jersey Blvd (and often stuffed into seemingly otherise unused sidings). More recent Google views of the area don't show those strings - maybe it was just car storage at the time. A decent number of box cars are still there by the warehouse off Port Jersey, as they were in the late 1990s.
The auto distributor was BMW, I don't recall any other auto brands at the time, but I do recall BMW used funky looking enclosed truck trailers for shipment (with bulbous fiberglass rear doors - apparently they are still used).
The building located at the NW corner of Colony Rd and ...Foot of Colony Road (really?) - actually there were two buildings constructed around then, but the Easternmost building was constructed with a rail siding (more visible using Bing than Google Earth). It was not constructed with loading doors or piping, and I have no idea if it was ever used, but I suppose the idea was if a company wanted rail service they would add doors, or install piping for hopper/tank car unloading (there are 3 grates along that siding, they might be drainage grates but it's possible they were put there for future unloading equipment).
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Re: WANTED - info on Greenville ops circa 1999-2001

Postby Lupo10 » Fri Sep 04, 2015 11:55 am

Thanks all. I appreciate getting some commentary on this thread.

The hopper cars that used to be stored around all the sidings south of Greenville Yard apparently were loads that were stored as the customers would purchase in bulk and coulnd't accommodate all the covered hoppers at once. This from a Port Jersey employee I emailed once back around 2002. I understand nowadays that Port Jersey railroad is operated by the Port Authority so that may have changed operations. Similar storage was done in 65th street yard back then for Favorite Plastics on the Bayridge as well as Franklin Polymers in Sunset Park. My model railroad includes a fairly faithful depiction of Greenville Yard but none of the Port Jersey ops. However I will be modelling that operation as off layout staging. I also heard from that employee that the 4 track A yard had track 4 (the southern most track) dedicated to Port Jersey back then where they stored (what else) covered hoppers. I'm guessing (and this is where I need help) that CSAO always used A yard as the drop off and pick up for loads/emtys in and out. I have never seen NYCH switch in that yard so that info would be very valuable.
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Re: WANTED - info on Greenville ops circa 1999-2001

Postby Lupo10 » Fri Sep 18, 2015 10:31 am

Also if anyone ever took photos AWAY from Greenville yard facing south I'd love to have them. My backdrop will be a photo backdrop of whatever was south of the yard. I wish at the time I had the foresight to take those pics. I took a few and also glommed what I could from Google Earth. In any case any and all photos if anyone has any would help me. I'll even paint a Preiser figure in your name as a thank you :-D

Lastly (not really but lastly for this post) can anyone tell me how the Cross Harbor yard was so full (at least when I was there last in 2001) when I believe that all the Cross Harbor did was shuttle interchange traffic down to A yard (the yard that parallels Tropicana). Assuming CSX left loads for NYCH in A yard then in theory the Cross Harbor yard in front of the floats would be empty. Unless Cross Harbor pulled from A yard down to the floats in anticipation of the next float?

Thank you, thank you!
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Re: WANTED - info on Greenville ops circa 1999-2001

Postby Lupo10 » Thu Sep 24, 2015 1:08 pm

I have faith that at some point some of my earlier questions will be answered :-D

In the meantime let me add one more to the list. Do the 4 Tropicana tracks that dead end short of the overpass have track bumpers? Anyone have any pics if so? I have one pic of those tracks taken from the route 185 overpass but I can't decipher whether there are bumpers there or not. Also remember looking for info as it was in 1999-2001

Thanks again!!!
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Re: WANTED - info on Greenville ops circa 1999-2001

Postby nyandw » Thu Oct 15, 2015 7:50 pm

http://www.trainsarefun.com/lirr/lirrextralist/Cross-Bay-Union-Freight-Tunnel-1936-Study-Port-Authority_Ralph%20Shellhamer.pdf
A "bit" earlier then 2000! :-) See page 11/12 for Greenville/Brooklyn maps 1936... The Bay Ridge, Brooklyn to Greenville, NJ Study

Cross Bay Union Freight Tunnel Study 1936 Port Authority Archive: Ralph Shellhamer.
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Re: WANTED - info on Greenville ops circa 1999-2001

Postby Lupo10 » Wed Jan 13, 2016 2:24 pm

Update. Answered question 3 for myself I believe. I read an old email stating that NYCH had to drop and pick up in A yard which would imply that CSAO did not go to the float bridges at all. For anyone who might be interested. The rest of the questions remain unanswered still. Thanks
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Re: WANTED - info on Greenville ops circa 1999-2001

Postby jtunnel » Thu Jan 14, 2016 11:07 am

My understanding is the covered hopper traffic went away when Conrail SA upgraded the "flexi-flow" terminals at Elizabeth and Elizabethport. Someplace I do have photos of a truck transloading down in Port Jersey. I'll have to find and post it.

The times I watched the yard switched, CRSA power pulled the cuts forward and then ran around and left. I do recall Conrail shoving the cut into the yard. But that was the older yard track configuration.

I have a slide of a covered hopper that took a trip on its own from the interchange, through several derails and went for a swim in the Hudson. (something else I need to get scanned)

Photos I have scanned:
Conrail GP38 switching the Tropicana plant in 1999
http://jtunnel.rrpicturearchives.net/sh ... id=3426055

The 70 Tonner switcher from 1990:
http://jtunnel.rrpicturearchives.net/sh ... id=3426056
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Re: WANTED - info on Greenville ops circa 1999-2001

Postby nyandw » Sat Jan 30, 2016 11:02 pm

jtunnel: Nice photos, of Tropicana rail historic documentation. :-)
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