How's FRRR and GVT doing?

Discussion about shortline operator Genesee Valley Transportation, operator of the Delaware-Lackawanna; the Mohawk, Adirondack & Northern, the Falls Road Railroad; Depew, Lancaster & Western; and the Lowville & Beaver River railroads. Official site: GVTRAIL.COM.

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How's FRRR and GVT doing?

Postby WANF-11--->Chaser » Tue Sep 07, 2010 1:29 pm

Hi,

Was in town in Lockport for the Labor Day weekend. Nothing going on with the Falls Road at all from what I could tell. No locals, no ethanol trains, no excursions.
Or are they just not whistling off any more through the city? Then again the old Alcos should be pretty easy to hear :)

Not much seems to have changed at Lockport yard in a year or so. Same MHWA ballast cars, RPCX car, Plow (apparently repainted however!) and the standard company equipment in storage.

No customers left anywhere on the line except for the Ethanol Plant and two cold storage customers in Brockport according to the website and nobody left in Lockport at all.
Anyone got any info on FRRR growth plans or new customers in the works? Is FRRR working with the Niagara County IDA at all?

Hope new customers start coming online....I hope 21 days of excursion trains, seasonal ethanol traffic and two cold storage buildings can sustain a railroad.

Unless Team Track business is booming....

Thanks.

Chaser
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Re: How's FRRR and GVT doing?

Postby charlie6017 » Tue Sep 07, 2010 3:13 pm

There was a car or two on that newer spur near the Knowlesville Agway (forget the customer name) not long ago...

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Re: How's FRRR and GVT doing?

Postby NS59 » Tue Sep 07, 2010 11:20 pm

There is still a customer in middleport as well
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Re: How's FRRR and GVT doing?

Postby ERIE 360 » Wed Sep 08, 2010 11:18 am

WANF-11--->Chaser wrote:Hi,

Was in town in Lockport for the Labor Day weekend. Nothing going on with the Falls Road at all from what I could tell. No locals, no ethanol trains, no excursions.


Wrong. I wonder why that is? Could it be that it is a holiday weekend? Hmm....I wonder.

Not much seems to have changed at Lockport yard in a year or so. Same MHWA ballast cars, RPCX car, Plow (apparently repainted however!) and the standard company equipment in storage.


If it ain't broke don't fix it.

No customers left anywhere on the line except for the Ethanol Plant and two cold storage customers in Brockport according to the website and nobody left in Lockport at all.


Wrong. Their website may list specific customers for a reason. Here is one: specific joint-marketing efforts with those customers. Most shortlines do not list their entire customer list. On their DL page, they list a few of their customers. Does that mean that those are the only customers on the line? Nope.

Anyone got any info on FRRR growth plans or new customers in the works? Is FRRR working with the Niagara County IDA at all?


Yes.

Hope new customers start coming online....I hope 21 days of excursion trains, seasonal ethanol traffic and two cold storage buildings can sustain a railroad.

Unless Team Track business is booming....

Thanks.

Chaser


Sigh...wrong again.

Lastly, it's FRR not FRRR. Drop the last R.
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Re: How's FRRR and GVT doing?

Postby WANF-11--->Chaser » Wed Sep 08, 2010 2:19 pm

Wow, Erie 360 showed me. What is it about some people who post on message boards that are just inherently rude?
Wrong Wrong Wrong! What is this The McLaughlin Group on PBS? LOL. Sheesh - I'm not Pat Buchannan or Jack Germond. WRONG!

Hey Xbox ESPN or Erie 360, since you know so much, care to comment on the missed property tax payment and PILOT Default?

February 2010
http://www.buffalonews.com/business/article33892.ece
http://www.buffalonews.com/incoming/article33793.ece

Although an article in the Buffalo News from August 15th states the county renewed them...but not by choice:

"Falls Road Railroad won a 15-year PILOT for its rail line from Lockport into Orleans County. Sloma said Orleans County requested the deal because the financially troubled railroad is the county’s only rail link to the main CSX line in Western New York and also serves the ethanol plant in Shelby. The railroad must pay municipalities in the two counties about $158,000 owed on a 1997 PILOT, as well as $525,000 in new payments over the next 15 years."

So spreading out $683,000 over 15 years is about $45,000 a year in revenue needed to cover taxes - a real bargain. Still, missing a tax payment is a serious problem.

Anyone know what the going termination rate per car is for CSX crewed and powered trains to the ethanol plant? Looks like that's the railroad's lifeline.
Hopefully the ethanol business remains strong and corn shipments by rail increase.

Regardless of that, can the current traffic levels support a privately owned railroad?
They've lost a lot of customers in the past 14+ years due to one reason or another.

I sure hope things turn around for the Falls Road!

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Re: How's FRRR and GVT doing?

Postby ERIE 360 » Wed Sep 08, 2010 3:03 pm

Accept the fact that you were wrong.

What is with people who post erroneous/misinformed crap on forums and then get their panties in a bunch when corrected? Wrong is wrong. It's a simple as that.

As for the tax issue. The trains still run. That should indicate the results of the discussion between the involved parties.

Refrain from presenting your "thoughts" as fact and maybe people would be less likely to jump down your throat.
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Re: How's FRRR and GVT doing?

Postby ERIE 360 » Wed Sep 08, 2010 3:28 pm

I'm what I like to call a shortline advocate. Too many railfans like you assume the worst and it doesn't help these railroads out. I'll be first to speak well of the OMID, BSOR, GVT roads, NYSW, LAL roads, FGLK/ONCT, SMS, LS, R&N, BRW, and a variety of other shortlines. It does not necessarily mean I am more connected than the next guy but having worked alongside many of these people, it pisses me off when punks like you try to place your own twisted views on the reality. If you don't know for sure, leave your false opinions to yourself.
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Re: How's FRRR and GVT doing?

Postby charlie6017 » Wed Sep 08, 2010 5:21 pm

WANF-11--->Chaser wrote:Wow, Erie 360 showed me. What is it about some people who post on message boards that are just inherently rude?
Wrong Wrong Wrong! What is this The McLaughlin Group on PBS? LOL. Sheesh - I'm not Pat Buchannan or Jack Germond. WRONG!


Well.......to be quite honest, half the time that you post on here you seem rather rude yourself. So instead of bashing others maybe take a look in your own mirror.

You were quite rude in this thread here.

Just sayin'........

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Re: How's FRRR and GVT doing?

Postby ERIE 360 » Wed Sep 08, 2010 9:35 pm

Thank you Charlie.

This is exactly why I responded the way I did in that thread as well as in this one. This person is quite the character sometimes.
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!

Postby WANF-11--->Chaser » Thu Sep 09, 2010 10:44 am

LOL. Whatever. Some "community" here.
More like a fiefdom of techno railfans and their vitual buddies.

Erie 360, Did I ever say I was anti GVT? NO. You assumed that. You need to lighten up. Don't take it personally just because you cant handle the facts. Clearly some government officials and this railfan can see that business is not as good as it could be for GVT and hope things improve. Gee don't point out the shortcomings of a Railroad...because you know - if we don't think or talk about it...it'll just go away la la la and the sun will come out and daisys will bloom and birds will sing!

Yeah I'm being a sarcastic in my last paragraph. My post was based on first hand observation, opinion, and facts, systematically picked apart for personal gratification rather than add something constructive and discuss the issue.
And if someone's rude to me, I'll return the favor. Charlie, nobody asked you so don't butt in. Let Erie speak for himself he's a big boy.

You both should get a PM from an admin for your attitudes...but I probably will for sticking up for myself. You know I remember there's a reason why I gave up posting to these boards...because some apparently flippantly emotional individuals cant deal with the facts have a respectful converation and have to protect their turf, employer, whatever and take things way too personally.

Ok go ahead, I'll let you have the last word Erie because you're going to anyway- I know how important it is for full time professional railfan "advocate" blowhards to get the last word in.
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Re: How's FRRR and GVT doing?

Postby med-train » Fri Sep 10, 2010 10:04 am

WANF-11--->Chaser wrote:Unless Team Track business is booming....


Yes, traffic has been down at the ethanol plant here in Medina. There is a new fertilizer customer in Medina using the team track. That makes 4 fertilizer customers in all. There is also a road products company in Lyndonville using the Medina team track quite a bit.

The ethanol plant traffic has been way off for over a year as farmers have been trucking corn from all of Western and Central NY. The Fulton ethanol plant is now on line and twice the size of the Medina plant. Corn trains have been coming in fairly regularly since August and will probably be more frequent from here on as Central NY corn goes up to Fulton. The ethanol product is all going out by truck to Rochester and Buffalo users. Distillers grain is also being trucked out by farm customers around WNY.

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Re: How's FRRR and GVT doing?

Postby Nathan M3 » Sun Sep 12, 2010 10:43 am

Isn't it amazing how the uninformed are among the first to jump in and post their guesses?

Business is fairly steady with the dozen or so customers on the line. Seems the loaded corn train on Labor Day morning must have slipped by him. Also, while CSX power stays on the corn trains, CSX crews are relieved before the train enters FRR trackage.
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Re: !

Postby Otto Vondrak » Sun Sep 12, 2010 11:14 pm

WANF-11--->Chaser wrote:You know I remember there's a reason why I gave up posting to these boards...


Why don't we all take a deep breath?
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