More Falls Rd / Trolley line questions (Gates, NY)....

Discussion about shortline operator Genesee Valley Transportation, operator of the Delaware-Lackawanna; the Mohawk, Adirondack & Northern, the Falls Road Railroad; Depew, Lancaster & Western; and the Lowville & Beaver River railroads. Official site: GVTRAIL.COM.

Moderator: metman499

More Falls Rd / Trolley line questions (Gates, NY)....

Postby Train fan Mark » Wed Aug 20, 2014 7:40 am

I walked over and took some video of the 2 old bridges that cross the canal at Lee Rd and Trolley Blvd. I was able to tell the bridge that carried the trains from the older bridge.

The Old bridge being from the ancient trolley line. That bridge is lined up more with the road...so the trolley line was situated in what is Trolley Blvd is now?

So Then the falls rd ROW was built later? And then the street was built over the abandond trolley line row after that?

I remember trains on both sets tracks on the FRR row in the late 1970's.... but as I was checking it out over there, I saw the southernmost set of tracks curved towards the south towards the industrial property on Lee Rd. Did this track also cross the bridge at one point? If it only went south did it go somewhere beyond the property? Looks like a service line to whatever industry used to be there ( back in the 70's there was a huge logo for Genesee beer painted on the fence.. So I think it was either a distribution place, but at the same time it looked like it was some kind of bottle and can recycling place.

Once over the bridge heading east, where did the trolley line go? Are there any other remnants left? Perhaps the old bridges left over broad street just south of Lyell Ave?
If not what are they remnants of?

Thanks for any input?
Train fan Mark
 
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:36 pm

Re: More Falls Rd / Trolley line questions (Gates, NY)....

Postby charlie6017 » Wed Aug 20, 2014 11:58 am

Train fan Mark wrote:The Old bridge being from the ancient trolley line. That bridge is lined up more with the road...so the trolley line was situated in what is Trolley Blvd is now?


Yes, that is correct.

So Then the falls rd ROW was built later? And then the street was built over the abandond trolley line row after that?


The Falls Road wasn't built afterward, the trolley line was owned/operated by the Rochester, Lockport & Buffalo while the Falls Road was NYC.

I remember trains on both sets tracks on the FRR row in the late 1970's.... but as I was checking it out over there, I saw the southernmost set of tracks curved towards the south towards the industrial property on Lee Rd. Did this track also cross the bridge at one point? If it only went south did it go somewhere beyond the property? Looks like a service line to whatever industry used to be there ( back in the 70's there was a huge logo for Genesee beer painted on the fence.. So I think it was either a distribution place, but at the same time it looked like it was some kind of bottle and can recycling place.


I personally am not sure about who were the customers were on these industrial spurs, but I'm pretty sure there weren't any other bridges.

Once over the bridge heading east, where did the trolley line go? Are there any other remnants left? Perhaps the old bridges left over broad street just south of Lyell Ave?
If not what are they remnants of?

Thanks for any input?


I'll leave that question to others with more knowledge, but perhaps there was a connection to the old Rochester Subway?

If you check ebay, you'll probably find the book available on the "Rochester, Lockport & Buffalo Trolley Line". It was written by
William Reed Gordon. I actually need to add that to my own book collection as well.

Here's a link to an article on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rochester, ... o_Railroad

And here's a link to another thread on this site: viewtopic.php?f=128&t=68721

Hope some of my answers helped.

Charlie
~Charlie Ricker
User avatar
charlie6017
 
Posts: 3049
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 9:42 pm
Location: Rochester, New York

Re: More Falls Rd / Trolley line questions (Gates, NY)....

Postby TB Diamond » Wed Aug 20, 2014 10:34 pm

The Rochester, Lockport & Buffalo interurban line entered the Rochester Subway via a ramp off Lyell Avenue. This connection was established in February 1928 and remained in use until the RL&B went out of business in 1931. Can recall seeing the ramp as late as the 1970s but it is now long gone.
You can't go home again- Thomas Wolfe
TB Diamond
 
Posts: 1641
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 9:40 pm
Location: Rocky Mountains

Re: More Falls Rd / Trolley line questions (Gates, NY)....

Postby RussNelson » Wed Aug 20, 2014 11:09 pm

For added fun, keep looking east on the Falls Road. Soon you'll come to an industrial diamond, with only one of the four legs still connected. It's about 1000' east of the bridge.
User avatar
RussNelson
 
Posts: 3790
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 1:20 am
Location: Potsdam, NY

Re: More Falls Rd / Trolley line questions (Gates, NY)....

Postby Train fan Mark » Sat Aug 23, 2014 5:57 pm

Cool, I Googled and think I see the diamond. Would be cool to hae a closer look. maybe sometime soon.

Looks to me like the spur that might have been used by the current blue recycling plant is left over from the trolley line.. perhaps.

I also think the spurr to the south on the west side of the bridge was off of a track that used to cross the bridge. and continued to where the 2nd line currently begins, near the diamond. Neat Stuff. Tank you for all the information. Or said another way...I'm pretty sure there were 2 tracks across the bridge at one time

OR.. if there was only one track that would explain why once in while a train would stop and block both Lee and Long Pond Rd crossing's.
Train fan Mark
 
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:36 pm

Re: More Falls Rd / Trolley line questions (Gates, NY)....

Postby scottychaos » Sat Aug 23, 2014 8:16 pm

Falls road built 1853.
Rochester, Lockport & Buffalo interurban line opened in 1909.

Scot
~ Scot Lawrence
Moderator: Lehigh Valley
Co-Moderator: Anthracite Railroads
Scot's railroad webpages
User avatar
scottychaos
 
Posts: 4512
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 7:18 am
Location: Rochester, NY

Re: More Falls Rd / Trolley line questions (Gates, NY)....

Postby RussNelson » Sat Aug 23, 2014 9:14 pm

There were definitely two tracks across that bridge. By the way, my avatar picture was taken by Jennifer Merrow of me in front of the RL&B bridge.

And yes, the industrial to the SW of the bridge used to curve around. You can see the switch there still.
User avatar
RussNelson
 
Posts: 3790
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 1:20 am
Location: Potsdam, NY

Re: More Falls Rd / Trolley line questions (Gates, NY)....

Postby Train fan Mark » Sun Aug 24, 2014 9:31 am

Hey Russ yeah, I can recognize the lack of decking, now that I looked closely. Cool..

And Scot, so the smaller falls road bridge is actually the older bridge. I was thinking the other way around, thanks for the info!
Train fan Mark
 
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:36 pm

Re: More Falls Rd / Trolley line questions (Gates, NY)....

Postby scottychaos » Sun Aug 24, 2014 10:33 am

Train fan Mark wrote:
And Scot, so the smaller falls road bridge is actually the older bridge. I was thinking the other way around, thanks for the info!


Not necessarily..
considering the Falls Road was in use for 140 years, there is no reason to suspect the current bridge is the *original* bridge from 1853..
in fact, its almost certain to not be the original..the original bridge was likely single-track, the current bridge was probably built many decades after the first one.
The Falls Road line is older than the interurban line, but that tells us nothing about the relative ages of the two bridges.

Scot
~ Scot Lawrence
Moderator: Lehigh Valley
Co-Moderator: Anthracite Railroads
Scot's railroad webpages
User avatar
scottychaos
 
Posts: 4512
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 7:18 am
Location: Rochester, NY

Re: More Falls Rd / Trolley line questions (Gates, NY)....

Postby Train fan Mark » Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:06 am

Thanks for clarifying. Makes sense.
Train fan Mark
 
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:36 pm

Re: More Falls Rd / Trolley line questions (Gates, NY)....

Postby nessman » Thu Sep 04, 2014 11:54 pm

Train fan Mark wrote:I walked over and took some video of the 2 old bridges that cross the canal at Lee Rd and Trolley Blvd. I was able to tell the bridge that carried the trains from the older bridge.

The Old bridge being from the ancient trolley line. That bridge is lined up more with the road...so the trolley line was situated in what is Trolley Blvd is now?


Both trestles over the canal were built at the same time (around 1913) as that is when construction of the NYS Barge Canal was taking place to go around the City of Rochester (rather than through it like the original Erie Canal did). They're both double track structures - the northern most bridge to carry the RLB interurbans until that service was discontinued, the southern most bridge to carry the Falls Branch of the NYC. Both of these rail lines pre-date the Barge Canal so bridges needed to be constructed for them.

Like many abandoned railroad structures over the canal - most were never dismantled and were abandoned in place. The 'active' railroad bridge hasn't seen a train roll over it in years the Falls Road was abandoned just beyond Lee Road back in 1992, with the Lee Road crossing removed several years later... and in fact the bridge is blocked off with concrete barriers on either end. Just no need to have trains go over that bridge anymore as the lead to the recycling plant is now used for Klein Steel - traffic to the recycling plant never really materialized - and the siding is used for occasional car storage with enough headroom between the west switch and the bridge for a pair of locomotives to reverse direction on to the main track (and vice versa).

But yes, Trolley Blvd, as others have pointed out, sits on the former ROW of the trolley line.

I remember trains on both sets tracks on the FRR row in the late 1970's.... but as I was checking it out over there, I saw the southernmost set of tracks curved towards the south towards the industrial property on Lee Rd. Did this track also cross the bridge at one point? If it only went south did it go somewhere beyond the property? Looks like a service line to whatever industry used to be there ( back in the 70's there was a huge logo for Genesee beer painted on the fence.. So I think it was either a distribution place, but at the same time it looked like it was some kind of bottle and can recycling place.


That industrial spur hasn't seen rail service in at least 20 years. While that track didn't cross that bridge, locals from the Goodman Street Yard would have to cross the bridge and Lee Road going west, then make a reverse move onto the spur. The switch to that spur was pulled out at least 10 yrs ago.

Once over the bridge heading east, where did the trolley line go? Are there any other remnants left? Perhaps the old bridges left over broad street just south of Lyell Ave?
If not what are they remnants of?

Nothing remains of the trolley line other than that bridge over the Erie Canal. There may be some remains of bridge abutments and the such going west - but other than the ROW which is mainly utility lines now - that's about it.
nessman
 
Posts: 1678
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 10:58 pm
Location: Isle of Sodor

Re: More Falls Rd / Trolley line questions (Gates, NY)....

Postby RussNelson » Sat Sep 06, 2014 11:44 am

For what it's worth, the industrial spur that Nessman talks about is littered with small motor armature sheet metal and the company name on the building (which I don't remember, but looked it up at the time) is associated with small motor manufacture.
User avatar
RussNelson
 
Posts: 3790
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 1:20 am
Location: Potsdam, NY

Re: More Falls Rd / Trolley line questions (Gates, NY)....

Postby Train fan Mark » Mon Sep 22, 2014 1:28 pm

Totally awesome! Thank's to all for the info!!
Train fan Mark
 
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:36 pm


Return to Genesee Valley Transportation Family (DLWR, FRR, MAN, DL)

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest