Shamokin and Mt. Carmel nee Buffalo, NY Car used as shed

General discussion about fallen trolley and interurban lines in North America, past and present.

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Shamokin and Mt. Carmel nee Buffalo, NY Car used as shed

Postby EugeneV.Debs » Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:21 pm

Yesterday I visited Knoebels Park in Ellysburg,PA. Ellysburg is relatively close to Shamokin, Shenandoah and Mahoney City. For all of you who don't know Knoebels, it is a rather large amusement park that has been around for about 80 years or more. Yesterday I was watching a guy demonstrating chainsaw sculpture at the "Lost Logger", which is near the Haunted House, and noticed something strange, the chainsaw artist's tool shed, which was partially obscured, looked like a trolley. So I walked up to the shed and found to my disbelief that it was a trolley, a turn of the century, most-likely a J.G. Brill, semi-convertible trolley. I didn't have a camera so I remembered the details, 9 passenger windows, a destination sign window above the center head-light, etc., etc. Then I went to the Knoebel's museum and asked if anyone knew where the trolley was from and the reply I got was that they bought a trolley during the late thirties as a cottage and that there was a picture of it in the museum. The picture showed a car with the number 33 and the name "Toonerville". So I decided to post a question to this forum, but before hand I decided to see if I could find a picture of a similar car as I didn't think to buy a disposable camera to take a picture and instead I found a picture of the exact car:
http://www.davesrailpix.com/odds/pa/htm/sham15.htm
If anyone is wondering the car is in good condition as it is kept under cover and amongst other things it still has most of its original windows and at least after a superficial inspection its wood is in good shape.
So, does anyone think this car is worth preserving?
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Postby Ralph D Kautz » Wed Aug 25, 2004 7:14 am

If the Body is in good shape you might try conntacting either the Pennsylvania Trolley Museum at Washington Pa,The Electric City Museum in Scanton Pa,or the Shade Gap Railway at the East Broad top Railroad to see if they are interested in preserving the Car.This may be a one of a kind and the trolley world can not afford to lose any more vechicles to rust and rot.
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Postby walt » Wed Aug 25, 2004 2:59 pm

Ralph D Kautz wrote: This may be a one of a kind and the trolley world can not afford to lose any more vechicles to rust and rot.


This car may not be as unique as it seems. It is pretty typical of the deck roof, double truck, closed cars built around the turn of the 20th Century. I note that, at least in the picture, it is sitting on maximum traction trucks which were also fairly extensively used circa 1900. It is however definatelty worth preserving so the advice given is well taken.
Please Move to the Rear and Speed Your Ride
( Philadelphia Transportation Company)
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Re: Shamokin and Mt. Carmel nee Buffalo, NY Car used as shed

Postby Alcophile » Wed Aug 26, 2009 7:30 am

You said in the thread title that the car came from Buffalo. Could you do more research on this car's origins. If you're right about that, then it's the last IRC car in existence. So it should come up to Buffalo then.
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Re: Shamokin and Mt. Carmel nee Buffalo, NY Car used as shed

Postby EugeneV.Debs » Wed Aug 26, 2009 12:50 pm

Hello, I was only quoting the Dave's Railpix listing. Which listed it as:
Shamokin & Mt. Carmel Railway
#33, an ex-Buffalo car at the Mt. Carmel car house
December 15, 1934
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Re: Shamokin and Mt. Carmel nee Buffalo, NY Car used as shed

Postby skelly6090 » Wed Oct 07, 2009 10:00 pm

I have been to Knoebles many times and have never noticed the trolley. I will look next time.
I lived in Mt Carmel during the 40's and 50's and I remember that their were trolley tracks on 5th st. I wonder if they took them up or just paved over them.
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Re: Shamokin and Mt. Carmel nee Buffalo, NY Car used as shed

Postby Alcophile » Mon Oct 19, 2009 1:56 pm

Does anyone where I can get a roster of the Shamokin & Mt.Caramel or an organization I could contact to receive more information about this car?
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Re: Shamokin and Mt. Carmel nee Buffalo, NY Car used as shed

Postby Alcophile » Wed Aug 11, 2010 10:06 am

OK, last weekend I was in Scranton and at the Electric City Trolley Museum. There I bought a book Shamokin & Mount Carmel Transit Co. by Gene D. Gordon. It says #33 was built by Brill in 1905. It is original S&Mt.C. I believe Ed's Traction Photos confused it with #303 which was built Kuhlman in 1903 for the IRC. 303 was 3031 on the IRC. 33 has always been on the S&Mt.C. There is a picture of 33 after S&Mt.C at the park lettered "TOONERVILLE".
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Re: Shamokin and Mt. Carmel nee Buffalo, NY Car used as shed

Postby Trails to Rails » Wed Sep 08, 2010 9:44 am

I was there last week and snapped the following pictures, sorry they are not professional quality.

Gepetto's wife or assistant wasn't too enthralled with my photo taking around the trolley and refused my request to take a few inside shots. Maybe if I bought one of their overpriced chainsaw souvenirs she may have been more receptive. In any case here is the Knoebel's Trolley:

Image

Image

Image
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Re: Shamokin and Mt. Carmel nee Buffalo, NY Car used as shed

Postby Montclaire » Wed Oct 06, 2010 12:15 pm

I guess they're living out of it. I see what looks like a clothes washer through that door opening...
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Re: Shamokin and Mt. Carmel nee Buffalo, NY Car used as shed

Postby Alcophile » Thu May 31, 2012 7:23 pm

Trails to Rails, thanks for the photos. Sorry this took so long but in addition to the S&Mt.C book, I also have a copy of William R. Gordon's book 90 Years of Buffalo Railways 1860-1950. With a confirmed photo of 3000-series car, I can say this is #33 which did NOT come from the IRC, but is original S&Mt.C. I can say that no Buffalo streetcars survive.
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