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The Railroad Network
Hot Times on the High Iron
Laying a Little Iron - Part 2
About the Author
JD Santucci

J. D. Santucci (a.k.a. "Tuch") began his railroading career in 1978 as a trainman on the Missouri Pacific. After a round of lay-offs in 1985, Tuch embarked on a railroad odyssey, working in many different situations for different roads. This column tries to explain some of the nuts and bolts of the job and also demonstrates what we have to deal with on a regular basis within and without the industry. Tuch currently works through freights out of Chicago for Canadian National/Illinois Central.

©1999, 2003-2007 JD Santucci.
Logo ©2002 The Railroad Network.

Hot Times on the High Iron Logo
By J.D. Santucci

June 16, 2003
We are providing a couple special additions for today’s column including something all new, photographs. There will be various photographs accompanying today’s piece. They are posted at http://www.railroad.net/santucci. I will also include the URLs for each picture as part of the description of each step as well. You can take a look there to get a view of the equipment used in the operation of removing and installing rail as well. We will also include some guest commentary from former Roadmaster Mark Lynn as well with a few stories about rail.

This second part was delayed a bit as I had to get the photos ready, scan them and then send them out. There were some technical difficulties and that took more time than was planned, but I think you’ll all be pleased with the end result and will forgive the delay for part two of this story.

As I had mentioned in part one, I was assigned to the rail project while a Trainmaster at the IHB. I guess the best way to describe my position as part of this project would be to call it the liaison and information coordination officer. I was reporting frequently throughout each day to the General Manager (GM) as well as the Manager of Transportation Operations (MTO). For the first several days of the project I was meeting frequently with the Superintendent of Transportation who was also out there overseeing the project. After several days out there in the field, once the project was firmly established and underway, he didn’t spend as much time out here leaving much of it to my devices.

The MTO was very displeased with this entire affair and frequently expressed his disdain for the project. He would whine and complain to me as if it was all my doing. To listen to him carry on, one would think I personally devised this entire project just to make his life a living hell. So perhaps crisis counselor was also part of my job description for this project as well. What my job really turned out to be in reality though was referee. I was the mediator or perhaps whipping boy would be the better term between CSX and the IHB General Manager.

As I had mentioned in part one, CSX required a twelve hour curfew during the period of time the steel gang would be working on the project. The curfew was to begin each morning at 0800 and extend through 2000 hours each day the gang worked. No trains were to operate on the adjacent main track during this period. All of the other railroads that operated over the IHB were made aware of this curfew well in advance of the commencement of the project and train schedules were to be modified for this time period wherever possible. With trains whose schedules could not be modified, detour routing was set up.

Some Canadian Pacific trains were detoured across CSX’s former B&OCT Blue Island and Altenheim Subs from Barr Yard to the Wisconsin Central at Madison Street in Forrest Park and up to Schiller Park. Other trains used a routing on Conrail through Ashland Avenue Yard via the old Chicago Junction/Chicago River & Indiana route. If you didn’t detour, you were supposed to wait for the end of the curfew. Key phrase, supposed to wait.

“It’s the phrase that pays!”

This curfew quickly became a battle between the IHB General Manager and CSX. The GM was constantly holding the curfew to get all of these must run trains going first. He always had several of these must run trains almost every morning before he would allow the IHB Dispatcher to authorize the curfew to begin. With no curfew, there was no work performed by the steel gang. While they could position themselves on whatever track they were working, they could not begin their assigned duties. And when there is no work, they quickly fall behind schedule. When the curfew was delayed, my phone started to ring. I quickly developed new friends in high places with the CSX Engineering department. I was on a first name basis with the Vice President and a few other high ranking officials. They would start out the conversations with all sorts of very descriptive verbiage, most of which I cannot repeat in our little family forum here when speaking of the GM. When it came to the use of rather highly descriptive adjectives, these folks were certainly not linguistically challenged.

When I called the GM to discuss the situation, he would tell of all these trains that have to run no matter what. So I would reiterate what CSX required and demanded and the very bulletin issued the previous day regarding this day’s work schedule and the curfew. The bulletin was modified each day as work progressed, but the curfew time was still under the same time frame. Of course, little, if any of this mattered to the GM. Even though it was CSX’s railroad, he was calling the shots. So yours truly was strategically placed squarely in the middle.

“I was standing, caught in the crossfire.”

The normal plan on the IHB called for getting a very hot Santa Fe train out of Blue Island every morning at 0545. This move did not occur in an on time fashion more often than not. The train, which originally carried the symbol VCHOK (Vehicle, Chicago to Oklahoma City and normally referred to as the “Choke” train) then later VMCOK (the MC designating McCook, IL where the train entered Santa Fe rails) carried finished autos and also auto parts. These very parts were destined to a General Motors plant located in Oklahoma City and were pretty much all scheduled for “just in time” delivery. This meant they were to arrive just hours before they were needed for production. If they did not make it on time the plant could conceivably shut down as there would not be all of the parts required on hand to build new automobiles or trucks. Several mornings after the curfew was scheduled to begin, the Choke train would come rolling through behind schedule.

A few other mornings there were other trains that had to run without fail. There were at least a couple of which I recall were not through trains but rather, IHB jobs putt-putting along. The GM wanted these trains into Blue Island as he figured they were more important than getting the track project completed in a timely manner. These were trains that had obviously not been operated in a timely fashion overnight. A few Canadian Pacific and some other Santa Fe trains moved as well. One particular morning they held the steel gang in the clear for several hours before they were allowed to enter the main track and begin to work. It was well 1000 or so before they were allowed to commence working. Oh boy did I get the phone calls that day.

“Call me, don’t be afraid you can call me, maybe it’s late but just call me. Tell me and I’ll be around.”

So here I was constantly trying to get the steel gang out onto the high iron and to work while being undermined and overruled by the GM. The CSX people seemed to understand my dilemma. This was rather strange as these folks were from the same CSX whose Transportation Department managers and I always at odds about something petty like holding trains out of Blue Island Yard and their losing locomotives. It could either be the Engineering folks had a different and better temperament or perhaps a better quality and higher dosage of medication. While hoping it was the former I was betting on the latter.

In any event, I did my part to play referee between the two warring factions here and somehow kept my sanity. Well maybe sanity is stretching it a bit. Perhaps I kept from totally freaking out, going postal and taking drastic measures to alter and correct some attitudes. Although I must admit, some of the events relating to this project allowed such thoughts to frequently cross my mind. This probably contributes the decision for me not to own any firearms.

“Welcome to my nightmare.”

In addition to trying to be a one man peace keeping force, I had other chores. I scouted out locations for all of the equipment to tie up clear of the main tracks as work progressed; locations that allowed access by mechanics, fuel trucks, security people and the like. I also showed the CSX folks how to get around the railroad and the area and led them to certain supplies and even some suppliers. In between such chores I began to study the operation carefully. I spoke frequently to the steel gang Supervisor, several of their Foremen, one of the local Track Foreman and also the Roadmaster. Both of these latter two guys were fellows that I already knew pretty well and dealt with on a regular basis to learn more about the operation. I also used the opportunity to document what was transpiring in this process by taking photographs of the various stages of the project.

Later in each day (beginning shortly after lunch most days), I would start getting bugged by the MTO. He was all concerned about getting these guys done for the day and in the clear so trains could begin rolling again. Never mind we had this curfew thing going, both he and the GM were already starting to whine and complain about no trains running. I was actually told on more than one occasion to attempt to get those guys going faster and to then get them in the clear sooner. Oh ya, like that was going to really happen. I would just respond that I would do what I could. A couple of times I received these calls while I was with Frosty Hendricks the steel gang’s Supervisor and conveyed their message to him tongue and cheek. It was always good for a couple of laughs.

One idea the MTO had was to try to operate trains while the steel gang was into lunch. If they were all into lunch at the very same time, this would have been possible. However, the gang, broken down into several groups did not do lunch all one time. Instead each portion of the gang took their own lunch breaks. This meant that at any given point of time during the lunch period, at least one group was working, thus no trains operated as the curfew was still in effect. This revelation to the MTO went over about as well as that proverbial fart in church.

I would also get hounded by the MTO to try to project a good time that everybody would be in the clear at the end of the day. Now never mind you they held these guys in the clear for extended periods of time at the start of the day, now they wanted the steel gang to hurry up and get out of the way. These guys worked to quickly clear up and tie up for the day. They sure didn’t need me bugging their supervisor and foremen to get them to move even faster. All of this squabbling and battling sure made my life an adventure for the duration of this project. And somehow through it all, I never once gave serious consideration to obtaining a gun and visiting the offices on 165th Street in Hammond.

The efforts put forth on my part did not go unnoticed by a few folks at CSX. I was asked to send a resume to them. When all was said and done, I was called and asked to interview for a management position with CSX. While I didn’t wind up getting the job, I was told by a friend involved with the interview process that I did very well and put on quite the impressive performance. But I didn’t get the job just the same, so I guess it didn’t really matter how well I did. Who knows, maybe if I had gone in there like some big doofus I may have wound up as part of the management team for CSX.

In any event there I was, assigned to this project with virtually no preparation and very little advance notice. I was informed a little more than a week before the project began that I would be a part of these festivities. And I was given little background information or any type of marching orders to exactly what it was that I was supposed to be doing until I showed for day one of the project.

On Monday, April 1, 1996, I became part of this little project. April Fool’s Day, doesn’t it just figure? I met the Supervisor of the gang, a fellow named Frosty Hendricks. Frosty came from a railroad family that had its roots steeped deeply within CSX predecessor Chesapeake & Ohio. Frosty and his right hand man, Joe Sapp, gave me a background of this gang and its workings. There were seventy-four men and thirty-four pieces of equipment assigned to the gang. Local track department employees such as a track foreman and track workers were drafted into the project at each location the steel gang worked to augment their force. Most of the regular steel gang employees were long time members with virtually all of them having been a part of this gang for seven or more years. These guys were indeed, a real team; very professional in their methods and performance and very proud of the work they did and their abilities to perform it so efficiently, professionally and safely.

Of this gang, there were foremen, lead men, machine operators, laborers and mechanical employees. An entourage like this needs its own mechanical force to maintain the equipment and be on hand to effect immediate repairs should there be a breakdown. It was a well oiled machine; quite interesting and amazing to watch.

Safety was very strongly stressed and it showed. These guys worked very well and very safe. Not one personal injury had occurred the entire time they were on this project and they had gone quite a while previously without a personal injury. Every morning a job briefing was held before the workday commenced. A safety rule of the day was read, any safety issues were touched upon, along with any other items with regards to safety such as the weather. And weather was a factor as several of the days were quite cold and windy, including a bit of snow. The briefing was closed with a prayer asking for a safe day and guidance; very touching indeed. And interestingly enough, there was no concern about being politically correct with regards to anybody’s particular religious denomination. Everybody at the briefing bowed their head while a prayer was offered out loud.

So with all of this foundation laid, I will now lead you through this process. We will look at the procedures and methods used by the steel gang to go about the duties of removing the old and installing the new rail.

On day one prior to the curfew, all the equipment was off loaded from flatcars and positioned for service. All of the equipment was fueled, serviced, supplied and ready to go. The crew of the steel gang was chomping at the bit and ready to begin.

Once allowed onto the main tracks, they immediately began their operation. It was quite the impressive performance. Beginning the entire process was a machine designed to pull spikes. He began yanking all the spikes out of all the ties. The spikes were only pulled from one rail, not both. The plan called for the rail on one side to be changed out completely. The gang then worked back pulling out and replacing the other one (http://www.railroad.net/santucci/Steel Gang_front_end2.jpg).

A Galion crane followed and began pulling the rail up and off the tie plates and setting it over onto the shoulder of the right of way (http://www.railroad.net/santucci/Galion_Crane_with_Anchor_Knocker.jpg). For those unfamiliar with this machine, a Galion crane (pronounced GAL-yun) is a brand of crane, manufactured in Galion, OH. This is a crane with a boom that extends and also swivels 360 degrees. The crane is mounted on solid rubber tires (that cost some $5000 a piece) and is equipped with hy-rail equipment to allow it to operate on the rail as well as the road. The solid tires do not get flats in the inhospitable environment along the right of way. Believe me traveling along the right of way with conventional tries would have them chewed apart in no time.

In addition to their normal work chores with the gang, they are also used to place equipment needed on and off the rail and also load and unload the equipment from the flatcars that transport it across the CSX system. The Galion cranes are incredibly versatile and this gang would not be able to function efficiently without them. There are several of them assigned to the steel gang and their operators are very proficient in their use.

The first couple of days of the project had the gang testing an item called an “Anchor Knocker.” This was mounted to the guide on the Galion crane that was used to pull the rail. The Anchor Knocker was being tested to allow the removal of rail anchors simultaneously with the pulling up of the rail.

Rail anchors are used in between ties to help hold the rail in place during temperature changes. They keep the rail from buckling and kinking in hot weather when the rail wants to run from the exposure to heat. The Anchor Knocker was supposed to literally knock the anchors off and away from the rail as it was being pulled up. This tool was hoped to be able to eliminate the manual process of removing the anchors thus allowing the reduction of a couple of workers from the gang. The device met with mixed results and wound up being dropped from use by the second day. At times it was actually hanging up on the anchors instead of knocking them off.

The Galion cranes would move the old rail to the outside of where the new, replacement rail was laying and drop it there. Any angle bars and bolts that connected lengths of the removed rail together were manually removed later.

The next machine to come along was the “Wheel of Fortune (http://www.railroad.net/santucci/Wheel_of_Fortune%202.jpg, http://www.railroad.net/santucci/Wheel_of_Fortune.jpg ). No, this wasn’t a game with Pat and Vanna, this was an interesting machine. This machine had a large circular magnet that rotated. It followed the Galion crane and picked up the used spikes, tie plates and rail anchors. This machine was set up with wheels to ride the rail in place on one side and treads like those on a Caterpillar tractor to propel the machine. One side would use the rail wheels to guide it while the other side used the treads to level and propel it in the place where the old rail had been removed. The discarded material was picked up by the magnet, dropped onto a conveyor and then dumped to the outside of the ties. This machine was used to provide a clean working environment and safe place to walk. Having to manually remove the discarded materials would certainly slow the operation as well as provide for very unsafe footing.

Following the Wheel of Fortune was the Tie Plugger (http://www.railroad.net/santucci/Tie_Plugger.jpg). This self propelled machine was lead by the operator using a hand held controller. There was a hose and electrical line tethered together that the operator held. Like the Wheel of Fortune, this machine had rail wheels on one side and treads on the other. The operator walked ahead of this machine using the controls in his hand to advance, reverse and stop the machine. The hose he held pumped a polymer that filled or plugged the old spike holes in the ties.

This polymer dried very quickly and got hard. It would allow new spikes to be driven into the old, now plugged spike holes allowing them to make a tight bond to the ties. This process is far more efficient, faster and economical than filling each spike hole with the wooden wedges often used to fill the spike holes when making spot rail replacement.

The next machine in the process was the Cribber (http://www.railroad.net/santucci/Cribber.jpg, http://www.railroad.net/santucci/Cribber_2.jpg). This machine also had rail wheels and treads. There was a large brush like device on this machine that cleared the ballast away from the ties. Ballast on and between the ties was brushed clear.

The Cribber/Adzer came next. (http://www.railroad.net/santucci/Cribber-Adzer.jpg). This machine prepared the ties for the new tie plates. The surfaces of the ties were scraped and cleaned. Like the machines ahead of it in the procession, it had rail wheels on one side and treads on the other.

Right behind the Cribber/Adzer were several laborers that set tie plates in position on the ties (http://www.railroad.net/santucci/Tie_plate_setters.jpg). They performed this chore manually using long hooks to grab the tie plates and set them. These hooks eliminated or at least greatly reduced the need for stooping or bending over, thus minimizing the potential for personal injuries. I was amazed a machine hadn’t been developed to perform this chore.

Immediately behind the tie plate setters comes another Galion crane that was threading the new rail into place (http://www.railroad.net/santucci/Threading_rail.jpg). The operator of this crane was very skilled at this operation. He used a tool attached to the hook at the end of his cable to grab and pick up the rail. There were rollers on this tool to allow it to move freely along the rail while threading it into place. A set of wheels on the Galion itself also guided the rail into place and pressed it onto the tie plates (http://www.railroad.net/santucci/Threading_rail2.jpg).

An in-track welding truck comes next (http://www.railroad.net/santucci/Flash_Butt_Welding.jpg, http://www.railroad.net/santucci/Flash_Butt_Welding2.jpg). Each new stick of rail laid is also welded together to create even longer sticks of rail. The crew on this truck first prepares the ends of each 1440 foot stick of rail for the in-track weld. The web of the rail at the ends is ground using a rail grinder to remove any oxidation and shine the surface. This will allow for optimum contact of the coppers on the welder to the rail for the transmission of the electrical charge from the welder to the rail itself. The rail is then jacked up with track jacks. Elevating the rail allows the welding unit to reach completely around the rail. Should a tie be in the way, it is shoved back a short distance to provide for a clear welding area.

The stick of rail right ahead of the weld is grabbed and held by a Galion crane and then the welder is set into place at the two sticks of rail to be welded. Once everything is set to the satisfaction of the welder operator, he starts the welder. The welding process is automatic. A power plant on the truck powers the welder and all associated appliances including the hoist and boom that raise, lower and guide the welder unit itself.

At the very last moment of the weld before the welder shuts off, the welder operator, using his radio says “Now” and the Galion operator pushes the rail ahead of the welder towards the welder to create that final fuse between the two rails. The welder is then removed from the rail exposing the new weld (http://www.railroad.net/santucci/Finished_weld.jpg, http://www.railroad.net/santucci/Finished_weld2.jpg).

Excess steel and slag is chipped and chiseled away from the new weld. The rail is then lowered back into place and the track jacks removed and loaded back onto the welder truck. The in-track welder then moves ahead in the parade.

A rail grinder comes next (http://www.railroad.net/santucci/Grinding_the_weld.jpg).

Using special grinding equipment, the operator grinds the new welds smooth. There are two types of grinders that may be used. One is mounted on a cart that rides the rails. The operator moves the cart and grinder back and forth to assure a smooth even grind that eliminates rough spots. The other type of grinder rides on just an individual rail but achieves the same purpose (http://www.railroad.net/santucci/Grinding_the_weld2.jpg, http://www.railroad.net/santucci/More_grinding.jpg).

The next step is the Spiker/Gauger (http://www.railroad.net/santucci/Spiker-Gauger.jpg). Self propelled, this machine lines the rail into the 4 foot, eight and one-half inch gauge and then drives a spike on either side of the rail through the new tie plate and into the tie. This machine drives spikes in every fifth or sixth tie if I recall correctly.

Next in line is the rail heater (http://www.railroad.net/santucci/Rail_Heater.jpg, http://www.railroad.net/santucci/Rail_Heater2.jpg) This self propelled machine uses propane gas to fire heaters that will actually heat up the rail. This is a three piece machine with the front portion used to heat the ball of the rail, the middle holding a fuel tank and supplies and the rear section used to heat the web of the rail on both sides. Rail temperature must be 90 degrees Fahrenheit when it is laid. Before it can be permanently set to the ties, it must be heated to the proper temperature. The rail heater travels slowly along the rail heating it using the heater units above and along side the railhead. A special rail temperature gauge is used to measure rail temperature to determine how much the rail will need to be heated.

Behind the rail heater comes the Anchor Setter. This machine sets new rail anchors on the base of the rail in between ties.

Next come three Spike Drivers (http://www.railroad.net/santucci/Spike_Driver.jpg , http://www.railroad.net/santucci/Spike_Driver2.jpg). These self propelled machines drive several spikes at a time, on both sides of the rail. Three machines make the work quicker as one machine could not drive enough spikes or move fast enough to accomplish the work in a timely fashion. With three Spike Drivers, they split the work pretty evenly and get the work accomplished quickly.

The rail laying process itself is now complete. Laborers follow to assure all spikes are properly tacked down and also check to assure all anchors are set as well.

A Signal Maintainer will then bond any connections required between the rail and insulated joints and any other connections required to allow for the operation of signals and crossing

At the end of the work day when the steel gang is getting into the clear, a crew performs any finishing work required to get the line back in service. At the end of the last new stick of rail installed that day, it must be connected to the existing rail. This requires the stand nuts, bolts, washers and angle bars. Holes have to be drilled into the new rail and the joint between new and old is connected together. The Maintainer fuses a bond wire between the new and old rail at this point.

If the rail joined at this joint is of two different weights, the use of compensating angle bars is used. This type of bar is designed to join two different weights of rail together. There is also a difference in the height of the rail where it meets and this problem needs to be addressed as well. The Track Welder will weld up the ball of the older rail that sits below the new, heavier rail. Using a standard arc welder, beads from welding rods will be laid on the old rail building up a ramp as it were to create a smoother joint. If this wasn’t done, the wheels would slam the slightly elevated new rail and begin battering the end almost immediately. Once this process is finished and everybody is reported clear, the curfew is released for the day and the railroad is placed back into service.

Many of the evenings, I was with Track Foreman Luciano Arroyo when he reported everybody in the clear, released the curfew and placed the track back into service. It was positively ascertained that everybody was indeed in the clear before releasing the curfew. I was usually on the phone to the Assistant MTO at the same time reporting this information to him. Needless to say, this guy was usually very pleased to get this news.

Several evenings the curfew went a little later than the bulletin. It was usually only ten or twenty minutes. Not bad considering the steel gang was held in the clear so long at the beginning of several these days.

As I recall, once the line was placed back into service, the first train was to operate at 10 MPH and the following trains were required to operate at 25 MPH.

On the final night of the project, the steel gang Supervisor treated everybody involved in the project to a prime rib dinner at a nearby restaurant. The steel gang proper was in the clear well before the end of the curfew. They got the chance to clean up and then headed to dinner. I had to be out well past the time the dinner began with the “residual” force that was finishing up the remaining chores on the project. So by the time I was finished with my duties, dinner was nearly over so I missed out. I just hate to miss out on free food.

And now, as promised, a few track stories from Mark Lynn:

"A pretty good story about rail running to the bottom of the hill: At Enid, OK, the former Santa Fe comes down a pretty good hill to cross the former Frisco main. The old head section foreman from the Santa Fe side told me during a discussion about rail running at a class in Albuquerque that a couple of times a year for the last 20 years, he's cut out 3 to 8 inches of rail on the uphill side of the diamond so the Frisco didn't get pushed out of line, but he never had to add any rail on top of the hill to repair pull aparts during the winter. He was wondering where all that rail was going! Someone suggested he measure the height of the rail during the winter, as it was probably stretched like a rubber band! After we all had a good laugh, we looked up when the rail was laid and it was pretty early on in the welded rail era and was laid during January. It had never been preheated to a target temperature, so the equalization temp was probably somewhere in the 50's, instead of around 100 like it should have been for that part of the country. Probably only the relatively light traffic on the branch kept a big sun kink related derailment from occurring.

When I was a young pup in the Engineering Dept, we had a similar situation on the transcon between Galesburg and Chillicothe, near Decorah. The rail had been laid in December before preheating was known to be required. Every summer, a stretch about 10 miles long got a 40mph slow order on the South Track account tight rail. The Santa Fe was very reluctant to go cut up its nice welded rail in those days, but when Bob Greene was promoted to District Engineer, one of the first things he did was to convince Herb Webb, Chief Engineer at the time, that the rail had to be cut and relieved. Webb supposedly told him to go ahead, but if the slow order returned that summer, Greene would be the new section foreman at Amboy (a location in the Mojave Desert that has to have its drinking water hauled in by Santa Fe tank cars--to this day!).

So Greene put together a welding gang with a couple of welders on the front to cut the rail, about 6 trackmen to knock off anchors in front of the rail heater/vibrator so the rail could run in front of the heater, 6 more guys to blam the anchors back on after it was stretched so it would stay in place, 2 more welders to Boutet weld the cuts back together, and a young engineer (me) to record how much rail was removed and be sure the target temp of 95 deg was being adhered to

We made the cuts every .2 mile. The welders would immediately cut out a 2" plug to allow the rail some room to move as it was heated. Meanwhile, the anchors would be getting knocked off in front of the heater. Occasionally, the rail would jump an inch or two just as one anchor wsa knocked off. That was always exciting. The welders would continue to cut off slices of rail as it grew and the trackmen behind the heater would knock the anchors back on to keep the rail stretched. In some 1/5 mile segments we would remove as little as 3" of rail. The average was about 12", and if I remember right, the highest 1/5 mile segment was 18" of rail removed. It's incredible there was never a derailment in that portion of railroad during the years previous. Only Santa Fe's deep and wide shouldered ballast section saved them. The slow order did not have to be placed the next summer, so Greene remained District Engineer."

I would again like to thank Mark Lynn for his input on this column. I would also like to thank Otto Vondrak and Michael Roqué of the RAILROAD.NET website for being kind enough to host the photos that accompany this column. They had to put forth the effort to get me through the process of sending them the photos and then taking the time to add them to their site. I'm sure they might appreciate a few comments from you folks as well.

And so it goes.

Tuch
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